The Great Rev War Flint Musket test of 2012

[wahkahchimaol.com]

As I have mentioned in the past, I have access to guns which I don't own, but the owner is very eager to have me use them. he's one of those non-shooting collectors and he wants to see them go bang. I have three young men who want to participate.

Here are the guns:

1777 Charleville by Middlesex
1766 Charleville Pedersoli
Brown Bess

I can also access
1816 Perc conv by Pedersoli
Fusil du Chasse .62 by John Bergmann
Leonard Day Dutch Trade Gun .62
Nathan Stephenson Canoe Gun 12 gauge.
Gary White 12 gauge snaphaunce

My thought is to do a Rev War musket shooting comparison just the three Rev War guns. We could test the standard American musket (1766), the standard French Musket (1777)and the standard British musket (Brown Bess)

Does the Fusil du Chasse have any place here?

Of course it won't be scientific with only a sample size of one gun each. But what can we learn by shooting and comparing these guns? Any thoughts? Let's plan a musket test for these young men.

Should I build a trek/living history experience into this? Are there any units in California whom I should contact?

Thanks.

 

[troutabout]

For a comparison test there should be one shooter for a constant. Three shooters muddies up the water unless all three shoot ALL the rifles and the results are scored.
And I hope you have warmer weather than I had yesterday shooting with some of the French Broad rifles gang at the range because I almost didn't hit paper with my M1795 mongrel !

 

[Rifleman1776]

I can't think if anything that would be a meaningful contest, or test, of the guns. Only exception would be you shooting them all and declare which one is the 'funnest' to shoot. My BB ranks near the top in 'funnest' category of all the guns I have ever handled or shot.
BTW, you now have a fourm of many guys very envious of you. :thumbsup:

 

[Stumpkiller]

Does the Fusil du Chasse have any place here?

Certainly. Much fighting was done in towns and woodlands by Tories and their Tribal Entity Pre-Columbian Earlier Established (T.E.P.E.E.) allies. (Got in hot water last time I tried to identify that population of the Revolution and era.) The Iroquois (French name for them) had Jesuit contacts and the Abenaki were all around Quebec & Montreal for trading.

 

[trent/OH]

The lads could test a couple things, which would be subjective versus quantifiable. My first thought was they can describe the felt recoil for each musket. My second thought was they can determine how comfortable they are to carry for a couple miles each. I've never seen such a comparison.

 

[BillinOregon]

Plus it is a great excuse to spend a day goofing off with fabulous old flinters ...

:wink:

 

[Jason Lewis]

you probably won't learn much of value, they are all smoothbores and are going to shoot like smoothbores without good loads worked up for each gun. i would say the best thing you might learn is which gun has a better lock. which one is more comfortable to shoot than the others. have fun anyway.

 

[wahkahchimaol.com]

So what you are saying is that we add the Fusil du Chasse to the mix but we also add a trade fowler to emulate what the colonial militias might carry. The sacrifices I make for historical research.

 

[Stumpkiller]

Works for me. You can label one of the Charleville's a Fusil de Guerre to see who's paying attention. :thumbsup:


Make sure the canoe gun is fired from offshore. :haha:

 

I can't think if anything that would be a meaningful contest, or test, of the guns.

I'm missing the point of the "test" as well. Could it be to see which one is more accurate, after spending days working up the best load for each? Anything done would have to be done by the same shooter and even then, he would have to be experienced enough to evaluate his experience. Is this to compare different locks, barrels, triggers, etc?

 

[Grizzled Roberts]

The 1766, 1777 and 1816 are virtually the same musket. The 1766 Charleyville is the one given to the colonies by the French. It is doubtful any of the 1777 Charleyville's made it over here except in the hands of the French at the end of the war.
The US 1816 is an almost exact copy of the 1777 Charleyville, right down to the metric screws.

Perhaps you could make your comparison test a contest for the members only shooting matches. You could get a lot of results that way.

 

[wahkahchimaol.com]

I agree. It's not much of a test. It's more of an "experience". I'm just searching for the differences and similarities I want to highlight.

 

[buford87]

It would seem to me that working up a load for each musket, as was suggested by some members, would be counter to the use of the musket as a military arm. The line troops were not allowed to experiment with different loads for their muskets, they weren't thought to be smart enough by their commanding officers and it would have been a nightmare trying to supply the different size balls to the men in the field. In my opinion the test should be done with standardized loads as would have been issued to the troops in the field.....................watch yer top knot...............

 

[tg]

Some earlier guns might be questionable to be found in some places but in general older guns were around duriong the Rev war therre are existing FdC's and other older guns which have been converted to caplock, probably the more Frenchy and the more French influence remanined in anarea the higher the odds that French guns were still around same for earlier Dutch and Spanish gun, once a given area/time is determened then the research begins for mentions/evidence of various things that were there from the past during that particular time, the more detailed the evidence required depends on the level one plays the game I would think.

 

[fusil de chase]

One test that would have some educational merit would be to use these 3 young men as raw recruits and see how the various arms influence the learning curve. i.e reload time. very short range accuracy. and confidence. Due to factors noted above accuracy of the arms will not be one of the things you can gain much insight on.

Not sure how to design the trial to avoid time with one arm influencing the proficiency with the next but if you shoot in short enough strings evidence should come to light.

At the end of the day when everyone is black faced and punch drunk simply ask which arm they would choose to stand in line with.

Keep in mind also that these muskets were tactically tied to the use of cold steel in the guts so the 'feel', ergonomics and confidence in the musket with bayonet fitted is of prime concern have your recruits handle them with bayonet fixed and see what you learn.

It was common knowledge well into the 20 th century that you can train any ***** to stand up under heavy fire but it takes years to make him face a blade. A man who feels encumbered or akward with his shooting spear in not a guy you want on your right flank. A fellow who feels the sticker is a part of his body that will conform to his will is someone you want around.

 

[Grizzled Roberts]

The Charleyville and it's American off springs all have three barrel bands and a front sight on the front band. This makes for a nice sight picture for a gun with no rear sight. The world record for smoothbore in international muzzle loading is held by an 1816 musket. All of the top competitors use 1816s. Many of the shooters from other countries use 1816s or there on country's version of the three band flintlock musket. In shooting the military muskets, the three band muskets have a reputation for being the best shooters.

 

[wahkahchimaol.com]

Hi Grz. Do you have a website where I can see that data? That's fascinating. 1816 is that much easier a gun to shoot? When did the 1816 stock get it's final shape? Thanks. This is great info.

 

[Stumpkiller]

Tom Henley lives down the road a few miles from here (Gold in Barcelona; miquelet). You should see him shoot a smoothbore at 50M.

 

[Grizzled Roberts]

You got that right I used to shoot with Tom on the US international team. The last year I was on the team was 1989. I doubt I made an big enough impression for Tom to remember me.

The US 1816 Musket is an exact copy of the 1777 Charleyville musket. There is a slight difference in the shape of the front barrel band otherwise it is the same, stock lock and barrel.

 

[Grizzled Roberts]

I need to add, I was talking about the Brown Bess verse the Charleyville and it's offspring. Any of the 62 caliber smaller bore pieces should shoot rings around the 69 and 75 caliber muskets.