THE MISSING COLT?

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Zonie

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I recently bought a book called “ANTIQUE PISTOL BOOK” by Smith and Swanson First Edition Copyright 1948. Speedwell Press, Hoboken N.J.

The book has numerous drawings of hundreds of pistols which were made from photographs and actual guns. As it is a first edition, it also has a few errors, one of which I will mention.
I think the following drawing of a Colt pistol (from page 139) will be of interest to you.

Colt1.jpg


We have heard of the possible existence of a 1851 Colt which was made in the .44 caliber as a development gun for the 1860 Colt. It seems to me that the gun in this drawing has characteristics of both guns.

The first thing that seems strange is the “hinge action ramrod”. The 1860 Colt has a “creeping style” loading lever.

I thought it might also be a miss print when it said it was a .44 caliber because the cylinder doesn’t look like it is rebated for the larger chambers however noting the photo of a early Fluted cylinder 1860 Colt (COLT AN AMERICAN LEGEND, R. L. Wilson, page 144) it is clear that the flutes used on the early 1860 Colts ran the entire length of the cylinder and the larger rebated area appears to be a line just forward of the cylinder stops. The drawing shows this line.

The .36 cal Colts had a 7 ½ inch barrel while the text says this one has a 8 inch round barrel which was used on the .44 cal guns.

I believe having both the “Hartford Ct” and the “New York U.S.America markings is unusual? FLAYDERMAN’S GUIDE indicates the “Address Sam’l Colt Hartford Ct“ is a early 1860 marking while the “Address Col. Sam’l Colt New York U.S.America” was used later.
Flayderman says “the two basic barrel markings were”¦” which to me implies to me either marking, but not both.

There are several things about the drawing which are puzzling to me.
First, there doesn’t seem to be a trigger screw showing. This could be because the screw was finished flush with the side frame so it wasn”˜t obvious?

It also shows the screw head for mounting a butt stock, but the cylinder recoil shield does not show the cuts at the lower area for mounting the stock.

The pivot screw for the link style ramrod doesn't show. Of course the book could be wrong and this could be a "creeping" style lever, but it's configuration defenitly is not a 1860 Colt.

I could chalk some of these things up to the fact that it is just a drawing and that the artist took some liberties however, if you look over the drawings below you will see that except for the obvious error in the text saying the upper gun is a .36 cal (note the rebated cylinder of a .44 caliber cylinder), the drawings are very detailed and accurately scaled representing the 1851 and 1860 Colt pistols.

Colt2.jpg


As much as I hate it when the History Channel asks things like this, I have to ask:

Is it possible this is a drawing of the missing development 1860 Colt?

Any information or thoughts will be appreciated.

Zonie
 
Zonie, the first drawing looks more like a Pocket Police model to me. The grip shape is definitely not a '60 Army type. The fully fluted cylinder and the loading lever aren't quite right, either. And the frame doesn't seem to be rebated. I think the artist took some liberties here. Or was drawing from memory.
 
There's a saying in medicine that "anything's possible". Zonie, maybe you could do some research and write a new book? Come on down! :winking:
[url] http://www.cslib.org/coltarms.htm[/url]
[url] http://www.cslib.org/colt.htm[/url]
 
Last edited by a moderator:
One possible explanation for the "missing" trigger screw could be that the bolt and trigger were mounted by the same screw.
I have noticed this on a few reproductions.

Toomuch
..........
Shoot Flint
 
Interesting thread. As a side note there is an 1860 Army in the NRA Museum that was Factory made as a civilian model, with a taller silver dovetailed front sight and no screws for a shoulder stock. Only one I've ever seen. Really cool. :thumbsup:
 
Zonie said:
I recently bought a book called “ANTIQUE PISTOL BOOK” by Smith and Swanson First Edition Copyright 1948. Speedwell Press, Hoboken N.J.

The book has numerous drawings of hundreds of pistols which were made from photographs and actual guns. As it is a first edition, it also has a few errors, one of which I will mention.
I think the following drawing of a Colt pistol (from page 139) will be of interest to you.

Colt1.jpg


We have heard of the possible existence of a 1851 Colt which was made in the .44 caliber as a development gun for the 1860 Colt. It seems to me that the gun in this drawing has characteristics of both guns.

The first thing that seems strange is the “hinge action ramrod”. The 1860 Colt has a “creeping style” loading lever.

I thought it might also be a miss print when it said it was a .44 caliber because the cylinder doesn’t look like it is rebated for the larger chambers however noting the photo of a early Fluted cylinder 1860 Colt (COLT AN AMERICAN LEGEND, R. L. Wilson, page 144) it is clear that the flutes used on the early 1860 Colts ran the entire length of the cylinder and the larger rebated area appears to be a line just forward of the cylinder stops. The drawing shows this line.

The .36 cal Colts had a 7 ½ inch barrel while the text says this one has a 8 inch round barrel which was used on the .44 cal guns.

I believe having both the “Hartford Ct” and the “New York U.S.America markings is unusual? FLAYDERMAN’S GUIDE indicates the “Address Sam’l Colt Hartford Ct“ is a early 1860 marking while the “Address Col. Sam’l Colt New York U.S.America” was used later.
Flayderman says “the two basic barrel markings were”¦” which to me implies to me either marking, but not both.

There are several things about the drawing which are puzzling to me.
First, there doesn’t seem to be a trigger screw showing. This could be because the screw was finished flush with the side frame so it wasn”˜t obvious?

It also shows the screw head for mounting a butt stock, but the cylinder recoil shield does not show the cuts at the lower area for mounting the stock.

The pivot screw for the link style ramrod doesn't show. Of course the book could be wrong and this could be a "creeping" style lever, but it's configuration defenitly is not a 1860 Colt.

I could chalk some of these things up to the fact that it is just a drawing and that the artist took some liberties however, if you look over the drawings below you will see that except for the obvious error in the text saying the upper gun is a .36 cal (note the rebated cylinder of a .44 caliber cylinder), the drawings are very detailed and accurately scaled representing the 1851 and 1860 Colt pistols.

Colt2.jpg


As much as I hate it when the History Channel asks things like this, I have to ask:

Is it possible this is a drawing of the missing development 1860 Colt?

Any information or thoughts will be appreciated.

Zonie

Another item I just noticed is the pistol in #501 is listed as 44cal. but does not appear to have much of a step-up, more like a 36 cal. cylinder. Where as the cylinder in #498 is listed as a 36 cal. but it does have a stepped 44 cal. cylinder.

Could this possibly be a corelation error when the photos were put in?

Toomuch
............
Shoot Flint
 
I think that #498 description is correct except the caliber is obviously a .44. Note the reference to the engraved ship battle on the cylinder. This engraving could not exist on a fluted cylinder like the one shown in #501 and indeed #501 does not have it.

I just noticed another wierd thing about #501.

Both #498 and 499 correctly show the trigger guard as a seperate piece from the steel frame and the shape of the guard plate at the rear of the trigger guard seems to be correct.

The pistol shown in #501 not only does not show the trigger guard as a seperate piece, the area at the rear is rather round, as though it was a continuation of the frames radius at the base of the hammer. I can't find a Colt with this shaped frame in my gun library.
Speaking of #501s frame radius at the base of the hammer, it seems larger and it's center is displaced aft relative to the hammer screw.
Both #498 and 499 show the frame radius to be pretty much centered on the hammer screw.

I guess it is just an old sketch after all and I'm making much ado about nothing. :(
 
Zonie. I'm the guy that said Colt made about 6 experimental 44 Navies to see if the rebated cylinder idea would work. A couple of month's ago I said I would try to locate the source and I did a cursory effort then and couldn't find it. IN ANY EVENT it is still in the back of my mind and I am keeping an eye out. There are a bunch of libraries around where I live and I can't remember the library/book. Any how whenever I see a likely book I check it out. One more possibility- maybe the guy that wrote the book was wrong- been known to happen.
 

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