Third Model Dragoon

[Old Charlie]

A Friend gave me this gun. It was imported by CVA. It is a very well made gun. Fit and finish great. I have no idea who made it. Maybe some of you can tell me. The serial number id D89808. It shoots very high. As you can see in the picture. At fifteen yards I was aiming at the bottom edge of the target. At twenty-five yards it is shooting completely over the target. Any help will be appreciated.

 

[Robert an saa fan]

Very likely it was made by Armi San Marco.

Look on bottom of the barrel in area hidden by loading lever... you will probably see:

ASM Made in Italy

or

Armi San Marco Made in Italy

Have fun. :thumbsup:

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Charlie, what load are you using? Most of these revolvers will shoot high at 25 yards but are on at 75 or 80 yards. Two of my Walkers are dead on at 100 yards. In my Dragoons I use 50 grains of fffg under a .454 ball with a dollop of Crisco or a bees-wax and tallow mix over the ball. A #11 cap sitting tight on the cone finishes the load. I hold low or high depending on the range. With practice it becomes second nature.

 

[Zonie]

My 3rd model Dragoon was also imported by CVA.
It was made by Armi San Marco in Italy and they did quite a good job on it.

You will find a little rectangular box with some letters or roman numerals in it. This gives the year that the gun was proofed.
In the case of my pistol, the letters are AZ indicating it was made in 1990.

zonie

 

[Old Charlie]

You guys are right on. I found the asm under the loading leaver. The box on mine has BC in it.This gun is like new. If it had ever been shot I couldn't tell it.I was onlu shooting 35 and 49 grains of 3f.
Old Charlie

 

[mykeal]

BC is 1993.

 

[44-henry]

I've owned dozens of colt replicas and all but a few of them shot high. I've heard several reasons for this, one being they were meant for long range shooting out to 70-100 yards. This is plausible since it isn't too difficult to punch holes in a five gallon pale with my 1860 all day long at 100 yards, however, I doubt most people of the day ever shot at those distances with a handgun, most encounters were likely within a matter of a few feet. I've heard lots of old west gunfights that resulted in partcipants clothing catching on fire from the muzzle flash. I've also heard that Colt deliberately set the sights so they would shoot high since, by most accounts, in a gunfight situation people tend to aim at the widest part of the body by instinct, this would have made it more likely to place a ball within the vital zone. I usually just aim low with my colts, but I have altered a couple by installing a higher front sight. All you have to do at this point is just file it down gradually until you get it hitting center. In any event, those Dragoons are a lot of fun to shoot.

 

[Blizzard of '93]

Quite a 'gift', wish I had some friends like that! :hatsoff:

 

[mykeal]

...I doubt most people of the day ever shot at those distances with a handgun, most encounters were likely within a matter of a few feet. I've heard lots of old west gunfights that resulted in partcipants clothing catching on fire from the muzzle flash.

You're absolutely correct that 100 yard gunfights were not very common, but I think that Colt's design input came from the military rather than gunfighters. And the military absolutely shot 100 yards and more because it was important to get off a disabling shot as soon as your adversary was within range. They didn't typically wait for the opponent to get close. With that in mind the 100 yard target as a design criterion makes sense.

 

[Wes/Tex]

I've owned dozens of colt replicas and all but a few of them shot high. I've heard several reasons for this, one being they were meant for long range shooting out to 70-100 yards. This is plausible since it isn't too difficult to punch holes in a five gallon pale with my 1860 all day long at 100 yards, however, I doubt most people of the day ever shot at those distances with a handgun, most encounters were likely within a matter of a few feet. I've heard lots of old west gunfights that resulted in partcipants clothing catching on fire from the muzzle flash. I've also heard that Colt deliberately set the sights so they would shoot high since, by most accounts, in a gunfight situation people tend to aim at the widest part of the body by instinct, this would have made it more likely to place a ball within the vital zone. I usually just aim low with my colts, but I have altered a couple by installing a higher front sight. All you have to do at this point is just file it down gradually until you get it hitting center. In any event, those Dragoons are a lot of fun to shoot.

What you say is true. The military seemed to think Dragoons would be better served with revolvers sighted in for 75 yards...not much has changed for 150 years, just let the ex-perts make the decisions. Recently, the Italian makers have started changing the sight-in distance to about 75 feet or less. Don't let Ordnance hear about it!

As for shooting out-yonder, R.I.P. Ford noted one of the Texas boys boinked a Mexican soldier at "120 long paces" with a Walker. And for the record, being the keeper of the chips for the Texas Mounted Rifles, he noted 180 Walkers were issued, not the 500 noted by many historians. Only 90 odd were turned in...lots of broked revolvers or heavy diddy-bags! :wink:

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Are you sure about the 50 grain charge in a 3rd model Dragoon? I use that size charge in my Walker, with a ox-yoke wonder-wad on top of the powder and a .454 ball on top of the wad. I tried 55 grains, but I had to really squeeze it into the cylinder of the Walker, and they almost don't clear the frame as the cylinder rotates. :hmm:

As to the sighting in distance, I was told that the Walker replaced a carbine rifle, so a 100 yard zero doesn't seem too improbable.

Dave

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Some brands of Walkers and Dragoons will hold heavier charges of powder than others. And using an over powder wad also cuts powder capacity.
The Walker and the Dragoon Colts are horse pistols and were meant to be carried into battle on horseback. Dragoons usually dismounted and fought on foot and their big revolvers did act in place of carbines. Ditto for the Walkers. Practice with these pistols will turn the shooter into a most lethal combatant. We used to consistently knock over old bowling pins at a measured 100 yards with our Colts. The pins didn't take this abuse for very long, either.

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

My Walker is a Uberti. It will hold 60 grains without a wonder-wad, but I use the wads instead of being a member of the crisco club. Which makes of third model Dragoon hold more powder. I think that I may want to buy one :wink: .

Thanks for the advice,

Dave

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

I have a 1st and 2nd Model Dragoon and both are second generation Colts. Two of my Walkers are second gen Colts and one is an old Uberti. I can get 60 grains of fffg into the Walkers but use lube over the ball to keep fouling soft and keep the gun turning freely. Never have used wads. The Dragoons both will take 50 grains fffg and also like a little lube over the ball. I also put a healthy amount of lube on the cylinder arbor to keep things nice and slick. Powder charges are by volume, not by weight.

 

[Wes/Tex]

The Colt and Uberti guns are both cut with .454" chambers and will hold a bit more than other maker's guns.

 

[Old Charlie]

My Third Model Dragoon would easly hold 50 grains of 3f with an over powder wad.
Old Charlie

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Thanks! Now I know what to put on my Birthday list :thumbsup: .

Dave

 

[SAJones]

Agree that a lot of replicas shot high, I have about 3 (1 Colt, 2 Rem) that shoot at POA at 25 yards. Won matches w/ one of the Remingtons.

I've met folks that have shot original Colts, and they comment about how accurate they are compared to replicas, and didn't mention anything about shooting high. So maybe it's a modern problem, perhaps even relating to better powder nowadays.