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This gun will not fire

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glw

36 Cal.
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This is an issue that has been with me for years ”“ mostly because the gun is not mine and we only attempt firing it about once a year what with work, kids, etc.

But a friend of mine owns a .50 flintlock ”“ I don’t recall the maker but I do know he assembled it from a kit. He says he has fired it in the past and he doesn’t tell lies so I believe him. But we took it out to shoot one day a couple of years ago and the thing would never fire. We’ve tried several things in the intervening years and not a thing. In fact he has always had to pull the ball when he got home. Here are the details and I’d love to hear your opinions on what we should do next. As near as I can remember, we were charging the pan with FFFFg Goex black powder and using some FFFg Pyrodex in the barrel.

The problem was clear right away that the thing was not producing a spark. But we borrowed a cigarette from a guy next to us (in violation of the no smoking rule at the range but we were using it to ignite. Call it a cigarette-lock rifle. Kinda like a matchlock.) to set off the charge in the pan and it still would not fire. So we actually have two problems.

Some time later, I had read about how a lack of spark was probably due to the frizzen having had the hard metal scraped away and so it needed to be hardened. To this end, I searched high and low for a product I had read about called “Casenite”. I finally found a bag and we followed the directions to the letter which were to heat it to cherry red with a torch, plunge the hot frizzen into the casenite, heat it back up to cherry red, and then quench in cool water.

This did not improve its sparking capability. BTW, I also bought some new flints ”“ both natural (British) flints and some man-made ones that had been sawn to shape. We tried everything in various combinations. I also attempted to knap the old one but there comes a time when you’re attempting too many things that you don’t really know how to do in the first place.

No sparks.

I read somewhere (later) that you should do this casenite treatment many times in a row before it will harden the frizzen properly so perhaps we just need to re-do it.

As to the lack of ignition, I have since wondered if the touchhole (or whatever the proper term is) was fouled and just needed to be cleaned out with a vent pick. He had never heard of such a thing which tells me that he has never cleaned it out.

So, I’d appreciate any and all opinions on either the lack of spark or the lack of ignition.

Because I'm a new guy, if this has already been covered many times before, I apologize.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Flintlocks don't like synthetic powders....I would put real black powder in the barrel... :thumbsup:
 
Your first problem is that a flintlock will not work with Pyrodex as a main charge, Pyrodex needs around 700 degrees to set off while Blackpowder only needs around 400 degrees. you need REAL blackpowder in the bore to for it to work. Second the frizzen may need hardening. Btw, do NOT put the 4ffff Goex as a main charge.
 
pyrodex is NOT to even be anywhere around a flintlock~bad juju!

and what has been said....vent to barrel must be clean~
dump your powder into the barrel, prime the pan...and see if you can fire a blank....it should go Ppffftttt..........

once you see the basics are working, then load a ball and shoot......
all it takes is one little spark....you don't have to have a huge sparkler shower to lite up BP!
be safe....have fun~
 
Hard to diagnose a lock problem from afar, but here goes. If as you say the pan will ignite but not the charge, then look to a fowled vent hole, some a these guns come with a VERY tiny hole. I drill rifles to 1/16" .0625, Fowlers to 3/32" .0935. I pick the vent each time before I charge pan. If lock has sparks then it should fire. We need a pic or 3 of lock area & gun make. Where's the vent hole ? it should be on a line across top of pan or slightly higher. NOT at bottom of pan. I usually kasnite frizzens 3 times to get them hopefully hard all way thru. How hard is gun to cock ? Many flinter's made even today have mainsprings way to lite to fire effectively. These are just my thoughts. Try only 1 change at a time, until you get somewhere---The lock sparks & gun fires every time. A good lock will fire upside down! Keep us posted someone else may have another idea. Tom
 
Deal with the 2 problems individually...

Take the lock off the gun, put about half a pan of powder in it and touch it off...If the powder goes "poof" the lock is fine...It also means the powder is still good...

As mentioned, leave the Pyrodex to other guns...Clean the barrel and make sure the touch hole is clean...When you go to load and fire the gun make sure there is not oil or residue in the barrel...
 
I have to ask, how much experience do you have shooting traditional muzzleloading arms? Do you know how to properly clean a muzzleloading firearm? It is not like cleaning a modern cartridge gun at all. Are you willing and able, and knowledgeable on how to properly take a muzzleloading rifle apart?
 
Welcome to the Forum. :)

A few thoughts about your problems:

Find a flat metal cutting file and attempt to file the face of the frizzen. If the file leaves a bright surface but does not cut into the metal, the frizzen's hardness is alright.
If the file actually cuts the metal, the frizzen is too soft and it needs to be hardened. I understand you applied a case to it but it may have been too thin or it may not have hardened properly from the quench.

The flint must have a razor sharp edge to cut into the hardened steel.
If it is at all dull, it will not cut into the steel to produce the needed sparks.
The flint needs to be mounted in a leather strip (or very thin lead wrap) for the jaws of the cock to grip it properly.

The flint needs to be positioned properly.
With the lock at half cock, if possible, position the flint so that it is just about to touch the closed frizzen. On some guns this is not possible and if your friends gun ends up with a gap between the frizzen and the flint, position it as close as possible while still maintaining a secure clamp load on the leather (lead) that's holding the flint.

When the flint hits the frizzen it should knock it open. Sometimes the frizzen can bounce back after this happens and there is no great harm if this occurs providing the frizzen comes to rest on top of the flint/cock). If the frizzen doesn't open and the flint is stopped on the frizzen face it usually indicates the flint is too short or the cock has too little force driving it. This is often due to a lack of oil in the moving parts of the lock.

IF the flint is biting into the hard frizzen face with a sharp flint it should produce enough sparks to lite the priming in the pan.

Some of the factory kit guns have a fairly long small hole that connects the vent hole with the bore. This hole can become partially or totally plugged with fouling or with (in your case) unburned or damaged powder. (Oil and water can damage gunpowder.)
Needless to say, this hole must be open and clean.
If the vent liner is removable (often with a screw driver) remove it and use a smoking pipe cleaner to clean out any obstruction.

The hole in most factory vent liners is usually too small to assure consistent ignition.
If you have an electric drill, use a 1/16 inch or a 5/64 inch drill bit to enlarge the existing hole.

Although not usually needed, after the main powder charge, patch and ball are rammed to the breech stick the wire of a paper clip thru the vent hole. You should hear it crunch into the gunpowder. This can also remove any non powder from the hole in the vent liner to assure a good hot flash of flame into the powder charge.

Give these things a try and I think your non working gun will come to life. :)
 
If all else fails: does your rifle have a Patent Breech as found on Lyman and other Plains Rifles/"hawkens"?

A patent breech is a reduced diameter section of the bore at the breech end of the bore of around a couple of inches in length. If you're cleaning with a .50 cal patch jag, any residue not flushed out with normal hot water cleaning may retain residual fouling that may affect ignition (try black powder first) but it never hurts to run a .30 cal. NYLON brush into the patent breech to scrub it out. If the bore is liberally oiled muzzle up, excess oil can accumulate in the breech & foul powder, preventing ignition.

However, it sounds like the Pyrodex use is your culprit.
 
These are all excellent ideas and I appreciate the time it took for you to write them down.

I will get in touch with my buddy - we usually try to fire this thing about once a year and we're due for another trip.

Considering his lack of energy on the matter, perhaps I could talk him out of his gun. Yeah! Now that I have a gun of my own (a percussion type), I intend to shoot a lot more. I love this stuff.
 
Since you are shooting a flintlock, Pyrodex or any of the synthetics are not your friend. They will not work in a flintlock. Your first chore is to remove the ball from your bore. Your next chore is to thoroughly and properly clean your bore. Check to make sure the flash channel is clear and free of moisture or oil. You are then ready to load your flintlock with real black powder and enjoy the pleasure of shooting a flintlock rifle.
 

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