Thought the third time would be a charm but it wasn't

[Bighorserider]

Took my Pietta 51 Navy to the range for the third time. Aside from the 50 mph winds everything went great until I tried to lower the hammer onto a safety pin on a fully loaded cylender and missed and let it down on a capped nipple. The gun completely locked up. The hammer wouldn't cock at all. Not having tools for a complete disassembly or wanting to do it in that wind and definitely not wanting to carry a gun in that condition in my car, I just gave the hammer a light tap with my mallet to fire the chamber. With no cap on the nipple the gun worked normally. After getting home and doing some experiments I found that the action cycled normally with no caps, but with caps on any of the nipples and the hammer down on the cap the action would not cycle. Funny thing is if I only loaded 5 I would have never noticed anything wrong. Does anyone have any suggestions as to what is going on?

 

[TreeMan]

Sounds like the caps are too small and not fully seated on the nipple causing the cylinder to not be able to rotate. If the caps are sticking out it will bind the cylinder and not let you cock it.

 

[Phil Coffins]

I would agree, the finger of the bolt may not of cleared the cam on the hammer so the bolt won’t be coming down as the hammer is cocked thus locking the action.

 

[45D]

It's called bolt reset. It's the second click you hear when you let the hammer down. As you have found, late bolt reset can get you in trouble. I try to get reset as soon as the hammer face breaks the recoil shield plane.

Mike

 

[Rich44]

The bolt reset click is heard when the hammer is let down and accrues after the first click when the hammer is close to the nipple. You can test this just by working the action. Until that click is heard you cannot recock the hammer. Yours is probably extremely close to the nipple so as to just work without a cap.

 

[Bighorserider]

I use CCI #11s on Slixshots. They slide all the way on easily. Sounds like I definitely have late bolt reset. What can I do about it?

 

[45D]

The reset cut is the "crescent" shaped cut on the rear of the left arm of the bolt. It gives clearance for the cam when the hammer is at rest.

Mike

 

[Rich44]

Would recommend watching these to videos.





Take your Colt apart and clean any contamination and pay attention how and when the hammer cam pops thru the plow handles on the bolt stop.

 

[Gun Tramp]

Do you have hammer-to-nipple clearance without caps? Zonie would remind that when down, the hammer on open tops should not contact the nipple. There are posts with photos showing clay used to check this, much as Plastigage is used in engine work...

 

[Bighorserider]

I watched the videos. Thanks Rich44. The hammer does touch the nipple with no cap. The slixshots are a little longer than the stock nipples. That's probably the problem. I can't use the stock nipples because all I can get is #11 caps, and they fall off. Guess I will only load 5 and won't have a problem or maybe file a tiny bit off the nipples.

 

[Phil Coffins]

I’d recommend you do shorten the nipples anyhow. You really don’t want the hammer to make contact.

 

[45D]

Bighorserider,
You might can "cheat" enough to get enough reset without dressing parts. First off I will say having no hammer/ nipple contact may be an "ideal" situation but if you're someone that MUST have positive ignition (i.e. like a competition shooter) I would defer to having positive contact. All my customers revolvers (definitely my competition folks) have positive contact. If it doesn't go BANG, guess who gets blamed??! Lol
What you can do is dress the hammer face enough to allow reset to occur at or just after the face breaks the recoil shield plane. If you don't have nipple/ hammer contact at that point, you can remove material on the front of the hammer curve ( where it meets the frame) which will bring the face back closer to the nipples . . . so you can take more off as/ if needed !!! Anyway, this will get your reset taken care of and give you positive ignition.

Good luck.
Mike

 

[Rich44]

YES

I’d recommend you do shorten the nipples anyhow. You really don’t want the hammer to make contact.

NO

What you can do is dress the hammer face enough to allow reset to occur at or just after the face breaks the recoil shield plane. If you don't have nipple/ hammer contact at that point, you can remove material on the front of the hammer curve ( where it meets the frame) which will bring the face back closer to the nipples . . . so you can take more off as/ if needed !!! Anyway, this will get your reset taken care of and give you positive ignition.

Good luck.
Mike

 

[45D]

Also contributing to a fail to fire with and open top would be your endshake. If it is .005" or .006" and you add .002" or .003" to that with hammer / nipple clearance, you're getting into ftf territory. (There's that short arbor thing again!!). So, with maintaining "dry fire safe" nipples, you need a minimal endshake.
Going that route, you'll have to correct the reset the ol' gunsmith way.

The ROA came from the factory with a dry fire safe setup but I hear of ftf problems with some of them . . . it all really depends on your tollerance of ftf's.

Mike

 

[Bighorserider]

Thanks for all the suggestions guys. Now I have something to work with. I was thinking about just going back to the flintlocks I build myself and know how to work with. My first step will to try the stock nipples which seem to be a bit shorter.