Thoughts on Patch Boxes - or lack thereof - on the Kentucky Rifle in its Golden Age (and Colonial Age)

[oldwood]

Don't forget guys.......All the shiny contrast between metal and wood , requires cleaning and shining to keep it shiny. (wooden Q-tip work..UGHHH). Never was one to polish brass. What's the point??? Guess if it makes you feel good? Historically , according to the early manuscripts , there were few "fancy rifles" , on the frontier.

 

[Gordoncourtney]

I might add , back I. 1853 when my Reilly cape rifle was made it had a small round patch box that many favour in 1972 my first effort had a steel imitation ones Later on my two long rifles with big Bess flintlocks , I thought big patch boxes are needed , not quite finished , but they will hold tools flints and patches. That was my idea at the time. , yes love big patch boxes , Tommy my mentor up in Maine does not like them at all, indeed two ugly rifles , but practical for the wilderness in every way. He was delighted with the design of the little round Reilly patch boxes Perhaps like Powder horns mountain men scratched designs on them ,maps even, with the light of the fire on a cold winters night. And they also scratched designs and maps on their patch boxes….it’s just a thought , engraved powder horns are worth $$$$ today. These powder horn sold for $30,000.

Few patch boxes on rifled Bonhams

 

[Gordoncourtney]

Plus

 

[Gordoncourtney]

Plus

 

[MTCossack]

Plus

Could you post or PM me a closer photo and any info in rifle #3332 in the last photo? It looks like a Bucks County gun and it’s gorgeous.
Thanks.

 

[waksupi]

Don't forget guys.......All the shiny contrast between metal and wood , requires cleaning and shining to keep it shiny. (wooden Q-tip work..UGHHH). Never was one to polish brass. What's the point??? Guess if it makes you feel good? Historically , according to the early manuscripts , there were few "fancy rifles" , on the frontier.

Brass looks lots better without cleaning.

 

[Gordoncourtney]

Could you post or PM me a closer photo and any info in rifle #3332 in the last photo? It looks like a Bucks County gun and it’s gorgeous.
Thanks.

Well you know your stuff. I have a few catalogs from Bonhams San Francisco auctions after 2012 when I bought my 450-400 double from their London auction

They are difficult to photograph as difficult to lay flat and so shiny but here goes

If you cannot read the text I’ll send it again

 

[Gordoncourtney]

Well you know your stuff. I have a few catalogs from Bonhams San Francisco auctions after 2012 when I bought my 450-400 double from their London auction

They are difficult to photograph as difficult to lay flat and so shiny but here goes

If you cannot read the text I’ll send it again

They are not very good , I’ll try again in sunlight

 

[Gordoncourtney]

In bed. It’s on google but no photograph
LOT 3332ANTIQUE
A FULL STOCK BUCKS COUNTY FLINTLOCK FOWLER
Late 18th century
-Select US Arms Type-

Sold for US$ 3,510 (£ 2,794) inc. premium
FOLLOW


Antique Arms & Armour and Modern Sporting Guns
10 Jun 2013, 10:00 PDT
San Francisco


A FULL STOCK BUCKS COUNTY FLINTLOCK FOWLER
LATE 18TH CENTURY
Octagon to round 41 inch, .54 caliber smooth-bore swamped barrel. Typical Bucks County centered rear sight and brass front sight. Flintlock lockplate marked W. Ketland & Co.. Brass furniture with Bucks County thumbnails. Incised scroll carving around ramrod entry furrel, barrel tang, around lockplate, sideplate, behind cheak-piece, and on both sides of wrist. Tiger maple stock with usual open-ended Bucks County nose cap and 1 5/8 inch buttplate thickness.
Condition: Good. Barrel with mottled brown patina. Reconverted lock has been cleaned, now having light grey spotted patina with visible repair to top half of ****. Toe-plate and part of ramrod entry furrel possibly period replacements. Stock with a small piece of wood replaced at toe and area around first barrel pin below rear sight. Areas of wood splintered and repaired on both sides of fore-end, reinforced inside with cheesecloth. Stock refinished with numerous cracks, chips, and scattered dents. Ramrod 2 inches short.
See Illustration

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[MTCossack]

Thank you!

 

[Gordoncourtney]

Thank you!

No problem delighted to help. It’s cold and wet and miserable west of London

 

[Gordoncourtney]

I was looking through catalogs a specialty powder horns and posted it on. “What did you do today “

 

[Gordoncourtney]

I was looking through catalogs a specialty powder horns and posted it on. “What did you do today “

 

[SirFrancis]

I think there were probably some made without, but more made with patch boxes. Even poorer folks’ guns typically had embellishments that we’d consider luxury these days. The exception were the very plain and cheaply made trade guns.

Any rifle was expensive and if you were going to the expense of having one made, you would naturally not cut corners. It’s only with the advent of factory mass production that suddenly there was a real economy in not adorning.

 

[excess650]

Hi,
That is the way Peter Berry positioned his patch boxes. It grows on you after a while.

dave

fungus grows on you, not Peter Berry patchbox execution

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
This is a little off topic but many American long rifles were not made for pioneers heading for the frontiers. Certainly, the big makers like Leman and others marketed to the developing west, but many long rifles made during the colonial, rev War, and golden age period were sold to prosperous farmers, merchants, and professionals working in rural towns and counties. The lonely frontiersman was not the only market and even a "long hunter" could buy a fine modestly carved long rifle (like Crockett's first rifle) for 10-15 dressed deer skins during the 18th century.

dave

 

[Fly Navy]

^so how many deer skins for one of your modestly carved long rifles?

 

[DuncNZ]

Hi,
This is a little off topic but many American long rifles were not made for pioneers heading for the frontiers. Certainly, the big makers like Leman and others marketed to the developing west, but many long rifles made during the colonial, rev War, and golden age period were sold to prosperous farmers, merchants, and professionals working in rural towns and counties. The lonely frontiersman was not the only market and even a "long hunter" could buy a fine modestly carved long rifle (like Crockett's first rifle) for 10-15 dressed deer skins during the 18th century.

dave

Hmm , trouble is before you buy your rifle you first have to shoot 10-15 deer and dress the skins , I guess this is where the smooth bore came into its own .

 

[longcruise]

The Author even mentions it while also extolling the rifle as a "first rate" example of Berry's work. Admittedly, though, everything about the gun is amazing, other than the goofy patch box.

I wonder how many inexplicable mistakes were made by the apprentice and the rifle sold as it was. Probably a more efficient practice than restocking the parts.

Also wonder how many of the examples of some bit of poor taste or workmanship were added to the gun after it left the shop by the owner or other smiths.

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

MTCossack: I like how you realized that Kindig's book had a specific perspective and yet someone who missed that salient point could come to the wrong conclusion that all Yorks MUST have a patchbox.

Reminds me of that quote: "History is written from the perspective of the victor!"