Thread Tied Patched Round Balls?

[ADK Bigfoot]

Somewhere, I cannot remember where, I saw a reference to the historical use of patched round balls wherein the ball was pre-wrapped with a lubed patch that was secured to the ball with thread. Did I dream that? Anyone have a reference?

Has anyone ever tried that? I would think that the force of ignition/acceleration would break the thread, and be fine; or would it survive those forces and make it out the muzzle still adhered to the ball? Would the muzzle blast break the thread? Would it release consistently? See what happens when you can't sleep at night?

ADK Bigfoot

 

[82ndPA]

Somewhere, I cannot remember where, I saw a reference to the historical use of patched round balls wherein the ball was pre-wrapped with a lubed patch that was secured to the ball with thread. Did I dream that? Anyone have a reference?

Has anyone ever tried that? I would think that the force of ignition/acceleration would break the thread, and be fine; or would it survive those forces and make it out the muzzle still adhered to the ball? Would the muzzle blast break the thread? Would it release consistently? See what happens when you can't sleep at night?

ADK Bigfoot

Rob on britishmuzzleloaders YouTube demonstrates a stitched patch round ball for the Baker rifle.



Only one I've heard if.

 

[64Springer]

Trying to imagine what possible good would come from permanently securing a patch to a ball.

The moment the wadded up piece of fabric caught air resistance the ball would tumble its way down range.

 

[Some_Mook]

Trying to imagine what possible good would come from permanently securing a patch to a ball.

The moment the wadded up piece of fabric caught air resistance the ball would tumble its way down range.

Watch Rob's video.

 

[ADK Bigfoot]

Rob states that "pre-patched round balls were held in the pouch" but I don't hear any reference to how the patches were affixed to the ball before placing them in the pouch.

ADK Bigfoot

 

[64Springer]

I watched it.

Didn't see where he tied a patch to a ball.

Only saw him tie a string above and below the ball to make a cartridge.

I'm in the OP dreamt it camp.

 

[ADK Bigfoot]

Springer:

"Trying to imagine what possible good would come from permanently securing a patch to a ball.
The moment the wadded up piece of fabric caught air resistance the ball would tumble its way down range."

That's my question. Would the force of the ignition, travel down the barrel, and then the blast at the muzzle, break the thread(s) and release the ball as if it were never tied?

I guess I have to wait for our range reconstruction project to end so I can make up some samples and test this out. Nice winter project for clear day after a snowfall.

ADK Bigfoot

 

[64Springer]

I think the thread would be protected by the back of the ball.

And the bunched up patch would act like a sail.

Would be a great idea if it would work.

Enjoy your testing.

May test a few myself.

 

[82ndPA]

Springer:

"Trying to imagine what possible good would come from permanently securing a patch to a ball.
The moment the wadded up piece of fabric caught air resistance the ball would tumble its way down range."

That's my question. Would the force of the ignition, travel down the barrel, and then the blast at the muzzle, break the thread(s) and release the ball as if it were never tied?

I guess I have to wait for our range reconstruction project to end so I can make up some samples and test this out. Nice winter project for clear day after a snowfall.

ADK Bigfoot

Oops... tying the ball in the patch is in "Part 2" of his video.

 

[oldwood]

I like easy. My old stiff fingers couldn't tie a cord around anything that small. Not easy. Tryed making up some shot loads , and buck and ball loads 45 yrs. ago , and in testing , they didn't perform well as expected. Wrote it off as just not knowing what I was doing. Didn't know any other human with a Brown Bess , back then. .

 

[Notchy Bob]

Somewhere, I cannot remember where, I saw a reference to the historical use of patched round balls wherein the ball was pre-wrapped with a lubed patch that was secured to the ball with thread. Did I dream that? Anyone have a reference?

Has anyone ever tried that? I would think that the force of ignition/acceleration would break the thread, and be fine; or would it survive those forces and make it out the muzzle still adhered to the ball? Would the muzzle blast break the thread? Would it release consistently? See what happens when you can't sleep at night?

ADK Bigfoot

I’m sure I’ve heard of it, but can’t remember where. I’ll check some of the references I have on hand.

if I remember correctly, this patching technique was used with early American military flintlock rifles, like the 1803 and the various “Common Rifles,” and possibly up to the time of the percussion M1841 “Mississippi“ rifle. These rifles were intended to use patched round balls, before the advent of the Minie system. The patch would be secured to the ball, and then dipped in tallow and stored in a pouch. I think the idea was that this would facilitate a faster reload. I don’t remember how they managed the powder charges, though. By the 1840’s, they had flasks with charger tops, but I don’t know how early those were used.

I don’t think you were dreaming, @ADK Bigfoot . If you were, I had the same dream. It would be interesting to test these, anyway, to see how they stack up against balls patched in the usual way.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob

 

[jdw276]

Trying to imagine what possible good would come from permanently securing a patch to a ball.

The moment the wadded up piece of fabric caught air resistance the ball would tumble its way down range.

I believe in Bernard Cornwells book, sharpes rifles, he described how the riflemen before a battle would do the accuracy thing, weight their roundball, check powder etc and sew the roundball into a piece of leather for consistent loading in battle for improved accuracy as they were shooting at distances for killing officers and senior enlisted. By sewing the roundball into a piece of consistent thickness leather it made for a more accurate longrange shot and loading by feel rather than sight. It was all about long range killing.

 

[Whitworth]

Picture from a 2009 post offing originals Baker leather patched balls for sale.

 

[ArmorerRoy]

I wrap and tie the patches on my 62 smooth bore. I soak the fabric in water, tie it tight, and cut off the extra. After it’s dry I lube with melted 50/50 beeswax and olive oil. Definitely worth the trouble because they are accurate and fast to load.

 

[Cayman like]

I wrap and tie the patches on my 62 smooth bore. I soak the fabric in water, tie it tight, and cut off the extra. After it’s dry I lube with melted 50/50 beeswax and olive oil. Definitely worth the trouble because they are accurate and fast to load.

 

[Cayman like]

Mark A. Baker in his last video he made with American Pioneer Video has a segment of tying patches to round balls. I think I'm going to try it.

 

[ADK Bigfoot]

I wrap and tie the patches on my 62 smooth bore. I soak the fabric in water, tie it tight, and cut off the extra. After it’s dry I lube with melted 50/50 beeswax and olive oil. Definitely worth the trouble because they are accurate and fast to load.

Thank you. Do the balls and the patches separate upon firing?

I have put a lubed ball in my loading block and/or speed loader and found later that they were well fused to one another. I would have to peel them apart. But I would think that the heat and flame of the charge would melt/separate them upon firing.

Inquiring minds want to know...

ADK Bigfoot

 

[ArmorerRoy]

Thank you. Do the balls and the patches separate upon firing?

I have put a lubed ball in my loading block and/or speed loader and found later that they were well fused to one another. I would have to peel them apart. But I would think that the heat and flame of the charge would melt/separate them upon firing.

Inquiring minds want to know...

ADK Bigfoot

Yes they separate.

 

[Pete G]

I’m sure I’ve heard of it, but can’t remember where. I’ll check some of the references I have on hand.

if I remember correctly, this patching technique was used with early American military flintlock rifles, like the 1803 and the various “Common Rifles,” and possibly up to the time of the percussion M1841 “Mississippi“ rifle. These rifles were intended to use patched round balls, before the advent of the Minie system. The patch would be secured to the ball, and then dipped in tallow and stored in a pouch. I think the idea was that this would facilitate a faster reload. I don’t remember how they managed the powder charges, though. By the 1840’s, they had flasks with charger tops, but I don’t know how early those were used.

I don’t think you were dreaming, @ADK Bigfoot . If you were, I had the same dream. It would be interesting to test these, anyway, to see how they stack up against balls patched in the usual way.

Best regards,
C
Notchy Bob

I also remember something about sewn patches in early military rifles.
Three of us couldn’t be having the same dream could we?

 

[ArmorerRoy]

I think we all watch the same youtube videos.