Thumb nail test for maple hardness

[flashpanner]

How hard should maple be? I just got my stock from TOTW and it seems a bit light. I did a thumbnail test in the squared off section, and it seemed a bit soft. How hard should I press before denting it?

 

[paulvallandigham]

Have you " Boned " the wood yet? That is done by taking a smooth piece of steel, or hard wood, like a hickory tool handle, and rubbing the wood of the stock oall over, under your hand prssure, to push the grain down, and give the entire stock a hard, almost slick surface. Its done usually after staining, which will often raise grain in the soft growth areas, which is traditionally removed with scrapers. You bone the wood after scaping off the raised grain, to harden the surface of the wood for the finish you apply. Maple varies in weight. I don't think you can tell much with the thumb nail test. All wood save, perhaps, iron wood, and ebony, possibly, is soft enough to dent with your fingernail.I have dented oak, and ash, two of our hardest American hardwoods grown, as well as hickory, walnut, and maple. A dried piece of ironwood might be a little harder, but I don't remember trying to put my thumbnail into it. There are even some hard " Pines ", particularly Yellow Pine, grown in the South that are pretty hard to dent when they have been dried.

 

[szihn]

I don't like to use soft wood. Weight is the best overall indacator of the hardnedd of maple, if it's DRY.
Weight = density
If I have to make a choice, I will give up some figure to get more hardness. Soft maple is OK in a lot of instances, but not the best if you do intricate carving. Good workmanship can still make a very nice gun from plane HARD wood
See the pics.
Not much figure to speak of in these guns, but nice work, and the carving is sharp and detailed because the wood was very hard.

 

[Stophel]

The thumbnail test is a matter of feel. You should barely be able to make a crease in a piece of good hard wood. Hickory is incredibly hard, and I can only barely make a slight mark with my nails. Sugar maple won't be that hard. Good hard wood will "Feel" like good hard wood. You can tell (or at least I can) just by holding it in your hands.

Density, by the way, does NOT equal hardness!!! Wood can be quite dense, and still soft as butter. As a General rule, yes, the denser, the harder, but it is not hard-and-fast by any means.

 

[szihn]

Huh? !
That's a new one on me. I have been earning my living now for 18 years building muzzleloaders fulltime, and I have done them on and off for 38 years. I have lost count of how many I have made.

I have never seen a piece of maple that was DRY and soft, but also heavy.
How can that be? Where have you seen such maple?


Not that I would want any, but density is a function of how much wood there is per square inch, as opposed to how much airspace there is in the mirco structor of the woods cellular structure, in the same square inch.

So I am a bit confused here.

Again, I say DRY wood that's dense is also heavy. Sure....there are always some variations from blank to blank, but I can't see how a light piece could be very hard, and I can't see how a dense/heavy piece could be both dry and soft.

:shocked2:

 

[Stophel]

Like I said, as a general rule, the denser the wood is, the harder it is, BUT, you CAN have wood that is fairly dense and heavy, and still rather soft. In fact, I have a soft maple blank here that is kinda weighty, but still rather soft (so much so, I can't bring myself to use it). Again, this is the exception, rather than the rule, but it does occur sometimes. :winking:

 

[szihn]

Well I will take your word for it. I expect you see things from the wood cutters standpoint that I would not see. I usually buy my maple from F. Harrison, and I only see what good blanks he brings to Friendship or those he sends me.

So perhaps you are right, and because I am the comsumer, I don't see that wood he rejects.
I must say, it's interesting to have you tell me that info.
I would have never guessed such was the case.
SZ

 

[ffffg]

i just fingernailed my walnut stock as hard as i could crease it where the finish is almost gon at the muzzel from cleaning and i could just barely see and feel a crease.. i feel you should not be able to crease hard maple with a fingernail.. i was a cabinet maker for 23 years and got a load of soft maple once.. what a nigtmare.. i sent a piece to the university and the wood guy there said he would do it and it took him forever.. it was soft maple. color was poor, and it was soft. i read the description at the time and it will take and expert to tell the differnce for a court type explanation of the difference.. if you can see a fingernail scratch id go to a cabinet shop near you or lumber yard and start scratching with fingernail.. if you cant see a scratch on that hard maple, tell track your retuning the stock and want one that isnt soft.. hopefully youve paid with a credit card as track can be tough to deal with on problems in my roundabouts with them.. sugar maple is darn hard and dense stuff.. maybe one of the hardest american hardwoods.. dave

 

[Vaino]

I dunno....Have built LRs from various curly sugar maple and curly red maple blanks....some were harder and some were softer, but all made nice LRs and all were carved. All these blanks were purchased "sight unseen" and my main criteria was the grain thru the wrist and dealing w/ reputable suppliers has eliminated "send backs". After the stock has it's final finish who can tell the hardness of the maple?...surely no one would give it the "thumbnail test"?....Fred

 

[rich pierce]

If they are hard enough to work and carve, that's what matters. I have seen soft maple that would crush when driving a thin sharp chisel in deep. That just requires adjustment in approach. Don't like crumbled inlets.

When carving softer maple it can be hard to "get that shine" with the chisel alone.

I do pick by weight hoping they are all dry. I freel wrong looking over someone's fine blanks and scratching them. Wayne Dunlap writes "super dense" on some blanks at shows and I buy from those.

It's easy to get heavy soft maple. Take it to the creek, put it in, and put a big flat rock on top. Take it out 3 days later and it will be heavier than the hardest hard maple you ever saw. Just joking, guys! :rotf:

 

[Mike Brooks]

I've got some maple stocks that can't be creased with a fingernail. It carves excetionaly well.
I've got some softer red maple that carves too, just not as well. I can carve about anything, it's just the harder stuff looks much crisper.
When I buy wood I go down the line of blanks and start lifting. The light ones I don't even look at. The heavy ones I look at the grain structure first, then the amount of curl.Like many others, I prefer hardness over curl.

 

[szihn]

That's my experience exactly Mike.
I also have some HARD maple that I can not crease at all with a thumbnail. That's the kind I like, and I will give up figure for hardness if I have to make a choice.
:hatsoff:

 

[Stophel]

I have a piece of super nice, very hard sugar maple here. Might near as hard as hickory. It's "aging" (a euphamism for "languishing" :grin: ). Waiting for the "perfect" rifle project.

 

[szihn]

Oh cool!
:applause:

What do you think You'll do with it? What kind of gun comes to mind?

 

[Stophel]

I think it will be the "ultimate Lehigh" gun...red varnish and everything. I need to learn to engrave...

 

[szihn]

Like an H. Rupp? I have always thought the Rupp guns were elegant. I made one for the give away gun at the 1999 Rocky Mountain Rendezvous. It was a sweetheart of a rifle.