Tips for shooting better at 25 yards?

[Ray-Vigo]

The better half is into muzzleloading pistols, but is having a hard time getting consistent groups at 25 yards with her Lyman plains pistol. We've opened the sights up a little with a file to make it easier to line up at 25 yards, but that only offered marginal improvement. Is there a web page or set of tips for a relative novice shooting pistol at the 25 yard distance? The range we shoot at is 25-50-75-100, so moving in closer isn't much of an option. She is not a fan of long guns, but enjoys the pistol. She just is all over the place shooting.

 

[David W.]

Trigger work from a competent gunsmith will definately help!

 

[Zonie]

A ML pistol is not much different than a ML rifle. They will all have a favorite load combination of powder, patch and ball.

The problem in finding this good load is that the slightest quiver of the hand or jerk of the trigger will send the shot off target.

To really find out which powder/patch load works best you have to shoot off of a sand bag or rest, preferably from a sitting position.
Even then, great care must be taken to keep the sights aligned while the trigger is pulled.

If you find a patch/powder load that is grouping well off of a rest you will know that whatever inaccuracy shows up on the target while shooting offhand is due to the shooter.

This is not to knock your wifes (or your) shooting.
A pistol is the hardest gun to shoot accuratly.
The slightest quiver or movement of the hand or arm will ruin the group. Even the way the trigger is pulled will effect the group.

Practice and praise are perhaps the most important thing to remember.
Well, perhaps another thing is more important than those. Having FUN is the most important thing and this often means not taking good groups too seriously.

 

[DOUBLEDEUCE 1]

Has the pistol been sighted in shooting from a bagged rest? That will give you a good starting point. Once you have that figured out for your particular pistol, the rest should follow pretty easily.

Next you will have to address the shooting stance and grip. Then comes a lot of dry practice. Don't over do that part. Keep it short, maybe five or ten minutes tops. Put it down and come back to it later for another short session. :thumbsup:

 

[pab1]

What are you using for a target? Its difficult to sight in on a consistant spot using a standard round bullseye target. For open sighted handguns and rifles I get the best accuracy with a 2-3" triangle, drawn point down. This helps you hold on a fine spot (aim small, miss small). I don't know how much experience you have with handguns but time at the range will improve accuracy. Experiment with powder charges and patch thickness to see what the gun likes. I recently built a .54 cal Plains Pistol and its very accurate out to 100 yards. The trigger on mine is great.

 

[DanChamberlain]

Ray,

It's been my experience that starting out at 25 yards is a mite too far. Start out at 10 yards and get the kind of groups you're looking for, then add in 5 yard increments.

The "secret" is no secret at all. It's simply practice. Practice is fun. It's not fun if you're not satisfied. Move the targets closer and have fun.

Dan

 

[Fred_Dwyer]

Pistols are a little different than rifles you know. Normally you hear, "Keep your eye on the target." With a pistol you need to keep your eye on the sights. There's a lengthy trigonometric explanation for this but the nutshell is; with the sight radius of a pistol 1/4 that of a rifle, any error at the sights is 4 times the error (of a rifle) at the target. Truly, I guess it isn't all that lengthy. Focus on the sights, let the target get blurry.

 

[crockett]

You didn't state whether she is shooting one hand, off hand or from a bench but from a bench isn't really much different than a rifle so I'll guess off hand.
As others have said- probably best to work up the best load off the bench- then you know the only variable is the shooter.
On the bench- you might try a thicker patch- that can help. Also, sometimes a felt wad over the powder and before the PRB can help.
On off hand shooting- maybe put a thumb tack in a wall at home and practice holding on the thumb tack a few minutes a day. At the range you could load or just cap- out of sight and hand the pistol to your better half- good way to spot a flinch.

 

[gifford]

Ray, one thing that has helped me is dry firing. Now, we know you 'can't dry fire a caplock gun'. The hammer will batter the nipple to pieces but a simple dome hard rubber washer will allow for you to do it.

I'll leave others to tell you about adjusting triggers and locks.

Simple hardware store dome washer slipped over the nipple will cushion the hammer fall and help keep the sight picture while you're aiming at the target on your wall. A buck or two at place with the helpful hardware man.

I took the nipple down there and made sure the hole in the washer was big enough slip over the nipple and was tall enough to keep the hammer off the nipple.
The big sidelock hammer falling can throw off the steadiest shooter unless they train themselves to ignore it.

Practice practice practice.

Hope this helps.
G.

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Ray,

Is this her first experience with ANY hand gun or is she already well versed in another discipline? If it's her first hand gun experience, you have your hands full, for all of the reasons Zonie stated.

Try a larger target and change targets often. As the groups narrow, move to a smaller target. This way all of the shots hit the target and she has fun. Learning to not flinch is probably the biggest obstacle to overcome. That's why other posters recommended a sand bag rest for the gun.

Having it stay fun is the most important thing. Good luck!

Dave

 

[Rhett Griffith]

Concentrating on perfect sight alignment and trigger control is the main key to success with a handgun. If the sights are even slightly misaligned, as stated above, the short sight radius will make the shot go wide. Likewise, if the trigger squeeze is not pretty much identical to the preceding trigger squeeze, the ball will land in another spot.

Have her squeeze the trigger slowly and uniformly while concentrating on sight alignment more than the position of the sights on the target at first. Flinching and/or trying to "make" the gun go off when sights are just where you want them will cause more problems than anything else. :cursing:

And then: Practice, practice, practice ....

 

[flaming canvas]

Colonial style pistols are very sensitive to hand placement. Moving up or down on the grip will cause vertical stringing. Moving around will cause horizontal change in the poi.

I saw one mention of dry firing with a rubber washer and that can be good practice. Another good drill is for you to load for her but about half of the time leave the gun unloaded with only a cap on the nipple. Shoot only light loads, maybe 10 or 12 grains of powder. Shoot a small target at close range. A 1 inch dot at 15 feet is pretty good. Any flinch becomes immediately apparent and it develops good follow through technique. The ones that go boom let you see if you are holding correctly. This can also be done with a revolver by loading only 2 chambers in random order.

Trigger pull on the Lyman pistols is usually harder than it should be. The return spring on the sear is a coil spring that fits into a boss on the back of the lock plate. I like to shorten the spring and then stretch it back out to original length to lighten the pull. Clip about half of a coil at a time and then reassemble the pistol and try the trigger. I would not recommend taking more than two coils.

The other part of doing a trigger job on the LPP is to file the sear to change its angle. This is trickier to do and you might think twice about trying it. The reason for the change of angle is that the factory tuning is forward of the pivot and you are working against the main spring when you pull the trigger. Changing the angle so that you are on the forward edge of the pivot reduces the work done. If you over do it the friction between tumbler and sear may not be enough to keep them engaged and the gun will not stay cocked. I have done these adjustments in 15 minutes with just my multi-tool. It is possible to bring the pull weight down from 5# or so factory to around 1.5 # pretty easily. The one I shoot breaks at 1 # even with a minute creep that you have to use some imagination to feel. That job took a little longer.

 

[Ray-Vigo]

Thanks to all for their advice so far. I do think practice is big. She's been trying to master the gun offhand, which is tough. She actually can shoot a colt single action pretty well, but this one is a bit different.

I think moving to the bench is an excellent idea for now. It's easy to be off a bit when shooting offhand. I think the points about dry practice are on the mark and we should get a cover for the nipple for her to practice the trigger. I still think she's pulling rather than squeezing a bit.

I'll consider the trigger work. I'm always reluctant to "clip" items because it's somewhat of a jump. I've done some lock modification in the past, but it was always gradual grinding or sanding. It may be in order, though I think the greater problem is one of getting better practiced. It's hard for me because I'm not a good pistol shot. I have the single action army, but she's better at that than me. I'm a long gun guy I guess.

 

the finest pistol shot I ever saw could shoot any trigger after some time spent with it. He said messing with triggers is like paying a smitty to wear your gun out. He always told me no matter how you hold the grip make sure you squezze the entire grip not the trigger And practice with light loads. enjoy your shooting.

 

[Zonie]

I think that perhaps the most important thing mentioned so far is what was said about the sights.

Tell your wife to concentrate on the sights at all times keeping the front sight in line with the rear sights notch and the top of it level with the top of the rear sights blade.

It goes totally against all logic and human nature to not concentrate on the target but that is exactly what must be done.

Because the human eye can only focus at one distance at a time, by concentrating on the front sight the rear sight will appear slightly fuzzy and the target will be very fuzzy.
That is natural and it is OK when shooting a pistol.
When she makes this observation remind her that she will be able to see the target clearly enough to align the front and rear sights and still point the gun at the center of the target.

An old friend (now departed) who shot pistol matches at the Olympics years ago and later became a DI shooting instructor used to say, "Concentrate on the front sight! If you aren't watching them, who is?"

 

[crockett]

Ray, if she shoots a SSA ok then have her try a two hand hold. If that's okay then it is how the pistol is fitting her hand. That will just take time and practice.