To help increase the ignition of a sidelock muzzleloader

[buddy3658]

Like to know what you think about this does it work how to know where the best spot to drill the hole .To help increase the reliability of ignition of a sidelock muzzleloader do this. Just a fraction ahead of the breech, drill a 1/16" hole through the barrel into the combustion chamber. I drill mine at a 45° angle on the right side, forward and above the lock. This allows the sealed up air in the combustion chamber to be bled off as the fire from the primer enters through the breech. If the air doesn't bleed off, it has to be compressed. This compressed air can push the fire back enough to keep the gun from firing. You don't lose much pressure and ignition is faster. I first saw this on a beautiful rifle from about the 1850s I was fortunate enough to inspect a few years ago. I also read about it in a very old book. It works!

 

[galamb]

I am familiar with the practice but had "heard" the hole is drilled into the chamber to relieve pressure on "loading".

This would ensure that the powder got fully into the chamber (on a patent breech) and the ball will seat more properly (reduces the chance the ball will pop off the charge due to air pressure in the breech chamber if you use and extremely tight patched load.

It also acts as a bit of a safety feature in that a bit of the breech pressure on firing has "somewhere else" to go (like a flintlock which has a "hole" to the outside) - thus changing your sealed system, percussion "pipe bomb", into a (very slightly) vented system.

 

[Black Hand]

That is why you have a nipple/touch hole. Any (air) pressure that may be present while loading bleeds out through the hole that is already there...

 

[ohio ramrod]

The older Dixie catalogs recommended drilling the hole in the drum to relieve pressure of the caps flash. I did this on a gun in the late sixties and found the flash through the hole when fired tended to scar the stock after a few hundred shots. Unfortunately the hole also left moisture in on a gun used hunting in damp weather so I had to "plug" the hole with a thin layer of beeswax with each shot. :idunno:

 

[galamb]

This is not a new invention/revelation.

Here is a couple pic's of original English built Purdey rifles. They included a vented "blow plug" to prevent out of control breech pressures.

I personally don't drill the hole on my cap guns but if I did I think I would be inclined to drill it right through the clean out screw (if present) on either the drum or snail.

That way if I later changed my opinion as to the value/validity or I sold the rifle and the new owner didn't want "the hole", a few cents would buy a replacement screw..

 

[Dphar]

Like to know what you think about this does it work how to know where the best spot to drill the hole .To help increase the reliability of ignition of a sidelock muzzleloader do this. Just a fraction ahead of the breech, drill a 1/16" hole through the barrel into the combustion chamber. I drill mine at a 45° angle on the right side, forward and above the lock. This allows the sealed up air in the combustion chamber to be bled off as the fire from the primer enters through the breech. If the air doesn't bleed off, it has to be compressed. This compressed air can push the fire back enough to keep the gun from firing. You don't lose much pressure and ignition is faster. I first saw this on a beautiful rifle from about the 1850s I was fortunate enough to inspect a few years ago. I also read about it in a very old book. It works!

What makes one think this would be more reliable?
Most old rifles were NOT vented BTW since this removes the most important feature of the percussion system. Its more WATERPROOF than a FL.
So what some British Nobleman or Landed Gentry used for deer stalking in good weather is something different than would be used in the tropics where is rains everyday or by someone hunting waterfowl for the market.
There were a HOST of bad ideas back in the day just like now.
Shotguns (a few it seems) may well have been vented to ease pushing the wad down on the powder. If sealed they tend to come back up from trapped air pressure and this could burst a gun.
When shooting driven birds they shot rapidly and generally with 2-3 guns and a servant doing the loading. Having to screw around with wads coming back up the bore would slow the process.
People were trying this back in the late 1960s and early 70s, venting drums and such. It finally died out (again apparently) but things like this tend to repeat themselves over and over.

Dan

 

[Billnpatti]

This is the first I have heard of this idea. It sounds a bit screwy to me. Since I load my rifles with the cap off and the hammer in the half cock position, the air vents through the nipple quite well. I have never encountered a loading problem such as the extra hole is supposed to solve. But, I seat my ball and hold it in place for a second or so to make sure that it doesn't come off the powder from compressed air. A ball rising off the powder has never happened to me but, since it has been reported, I pause for a second after seating the ball just for safety. An extra vent hole would just mean an extra jet of flame and burned powder flying toward the shooter who is unfortunate enough to be standing next to me. Extra hole a good idea? :hmm: Hmmmm.....I don't think so. I think I will pass on this idea.

 

[AZbpBurner]

It's apparently a concept that never caught on as being of any benefit. Otherwise, you'd see more cap guns with holes drilled in them.

 

[necchi]

I would not recommend this modification to anyone owning a modern cap lock rifle.

There is no need for it.

As Az points out above, if it was really needed it would be being done on a regular basis.
It's a solution for a problem that doesn't exist.

 

[azmntman]

well....could make a cap lock a match lock with a skinny cannon fuse? hehehehahahalololol I too shall keep all metal in its original state.

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Like to know what you think about this does it work how to know where the best spot to drill the hole .To help increase the reliability of ignition of a sidelock muzzleloader do this. Just a fraction ahead of the breech, drill a 1/16" hole through the barrel into the combustion chamber. I drill mine at a 45° angle on the right side, forward and above the lock. This allows the sealed up air in the combustion chamber to be bled off as the fire from the primer enters through the breech. If the air doesn't bleed off, it has to be compressed. This compressed air can push the fire back enough to keep the gun from firing. You don't lose much pressure and ignition is faster. I first saw this on a beautiful rifle from about the 1850s I was fortunate enough to inspect a few years ago. I also read about it in a very old book. It works!

What makes one think this would be more reliable?
Most old rifles were NOT vented BTW since this removes the most important feature of the percussion system. Its more WATERPROOF than a FL.
So what some British Nobleman or Landed Gentry used for deer stalking in good weather is something different than would be used in the tropics where is rains everyday or by someone hunting waterfowl for the market.
There were a HOST of bad ideas back in the day just like now.
Shotguns (a few it seems) may well have been vented to ease pushing the wad down on the powder. If sealed they tend to come back up from trapped air pressure and this could burst a gun.
When shooting driven birds they shot rapidly and generally with 2-3 guns and a servant doing the loading. Having to screw around with wads coming back up the bore would slow the process.
People were trying this back in the late 1960s and early 70s, venting drums and such. It finally died out (again apparently) but things like this tend to repeat themselves over and over.

Dan

GREAT Post Dan!

I too think along the same lines. I also think any extra holes in the ignition pathway is just more of a chance to let powder-hungry MOISTURE sneak in and foul the ignition!

I listen for the whisssh of air coming out the nipple as I ram-home the patched ball or conical. No additional holes needed.

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

I would not recommend this modification to anyone owning a modern cap lock rifle.

There is no need for it.

As Az points out above, if it was really needed it would be being done on a regular basis.
It's a solution for a problem that doesn't exist.

Right-on target!

And for those concerned about cards & wads on their shotguns & smoothies, just poke a little hole in them Over-Shot cards with the point-edge of yer knife and the birdshot stays in-place and the card doesn't cause the ram rod or range rod to pop out the muzzle all by itself!

Have a great weekend & stay warm & well!

Dave

 

[buddy3658]

Thanks everyone don't think I will be drilling any holes in my guns don't fix whats not broke.

 

[Wes/Tex]

Thanks everyone don't think I will be drilling any holes in my guns don't fix whats not broke.

Good call! Not every idea in gun making over the centuries has actually proved to be a "bright" idea. Each maker is looking for that little edge to put his stuff ahead of the competition. Some change gun making, some make the "Darwin List"!

 

[Dphar]

Like to know what you think about this does it work how to know where the best spot to drill the hole .To help increase the reliability of ignition of a sidelock muzzleloader do this. Just a fraction ahead of the breech, drill a 1/16" hole through the barrel into the combustion chamber. I drill mine at a 45° angle on the right side, forward and above the lock. This allows the sealed up air in the combustion chamber to be bled off as the fire from the primer enters through the breech. If the air doesn't bleed off, it has to be compressed. This compressed air can push the fire back enough to keep the gun from firing. You don't lose much pressure and ignition is faster. I first saw this on a beautiful rifle from about the 1850s I was fortunate enough to inspect a few years ago. I also read about it in a very old book. It works!

I would hesitate to recommend this for reliability.
The problem is that it then makes the Percussion even less waterproof than a good flintlock.
So if the hunter is out hunting deer in nice weather it might be OK.
Shotguns might be vented to ease loading. When shooting driven birds they did a lot of shooting and often used 2-3 guns with a servant loading. Having the wads pushed back up by trapped air could be a PITA
This venting thing was tried back about 1970 or 75 IIRC. People were venting drums on D&N guns etc etc. Then it apparently died out. Now it seems its back again.
Just because someone did in it the past, especially the English, who made really fine guns, but also did things that made them only useful on their test ranges. Such as rifling twists so fast that rifles of 20 to 10 bore would only tolerate charges about like a light shotgun load making them useless for hunting large game in Africa and India. Even though slow twists had been well proven with the Baker infantry rifle about 1800. This particular silliness is detailed in James Forsythe's "The Sporting Rifle and Its Projectiles" which can be downloaded off the WWW.


Dan

 

[Lorne Johnson]

Pierced blow out plugs were a feature on higher end British guns after about 1840. There are lots of features, drop points, various Damascus patterns, intercepting sears, side clips etc.. That does not mean that such features were necessary.

I own two guns (SxS) with blow out plugs, one with solid plugs and one with pierced plugs. None of these plugs have ever blown out. The first time I shot the Egg with pierced plugs was on a hot July afternoon. I was wearing shorts, running shoes and light athletic socks. As I drove home the over-powder wad, I felt a curious sensation on my ankle, almost as if a rather small dog was peeing on it. A stream of air was spewing out of the plug hole and onto my ankle. When I flush the barrels, water streams out of the plug holes. The holes are smaller than 1/16 inch.

Personally, I would not try to reproduce the pierced plug in a gun that did not already have them.

 

[Pioneer flinter]

I'm glad someone can still hear! :rotf:

 

[George T.]

Yeah that is a fact! When I read that I thought that he needed to do more shooting! :haha:

I shot a lot before I started using ear protection. Geo. T.

 

[jimnbubba]

It seems that if this were a good idea the people making these guns would do it ,kinda like a shadetree mechanic knowing more than automotive engineers about building cars

 

[Lorne Johnson]

There certainly doesn't seem to be much functional difference between the guns I have with blow out plugs and the ones that don't have them.

Now, don't get me started on automotive engineering and air bags!