To rust brown a new barrel or leave it in the white.

[jbwilliams3]

Hi AG,
I interpret Jim's colonial rifle to represent a gun made around our Rev War period (1770-1785) with a mix of German-Pennsylvania and British influences. During that time, gunsmiths usually did not brown or blue their barrels. There is some evidence of occasional charcoal bluing but it does not appear to be common. There is no mention of browning or bluing solutions in the few shop inventories that still exist in contrast to those from later in the 19th century. Certainly British gunsmiths were starting to brown their barrels at the time but that does not seem to carry over to the American colonies. You can produce a nice tarnish by painting the barrel with instant cold bluing and then rub it back with Scotch Bright pads. You can also start browning and then rub that back with the pads. Both methods produce a nice tarnish on an otherwise bright barrel.

dave

What Dave Person said...

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Puleeaase don't tell me you used French's mustard on a German/American Rifle?! Seems to be a bit of boomstick blasphemy if you did...…...

As a fellow Scotsman, you should know that I used the local, generic form of yellow mustard, the least expensive that I could find.

LD

 

[Gene L]

Urine was used in making gunpowder in France during Napoleon times, when France couldn't get saltpeter from other sources. Apparently, it has either saltpeter in it or a chemical that can be changed to saltpeter.

 

[Artificer]

As a fellow Scotsman, you should know that I used the local, generic form of yellow mustard, the least expensive that I could find.

LD

Aye, and it does my heart good ta read ye followed the thrifty path, Laddie!

Seriously though, why mustard? Is it because it has a tendency to stay where you put it?

Gus

 

[Grenadier1758]

That and there is a little bit of vinegar to start the rust.

Mayonnaise also works for much the same reason.

 

[Ames]

Funny. When I began, I avoided picking up guns with brass trim. Thought the color would stand out too much while hunting. Even if it aged. Same thing with the barrel. Brown must be better, right?
Well, turns out most of my whitetail shots come 25 minutes after sundown (legal here). They don't see the brass or the barrel or me. And mid day? I've sat up against a tree at 3 in the afternoon and had a doe come within 1 yard trying to figure out what I was, bright brass and all. Could have clubbed her with the butt ,but I had no doe permit.
So, to the original post, if you go in the white.......down the road I don't think it will effect its ability in the field if that helps. Your call what you do with it as far as H.A. I would think.
Your gun. Your call?

 

[tenngun]

That’s my newest but still oiling tha stock, not been shot yet. The garish White was navel jelly on 220 sanded and buffed with steel wool. Buffed scratches out of lock from fitting screw post this photo.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Aye, and it does my heart good ta read ye followed the thrifty path, Laddie!

Seriously though, why mustard? Is it because it has a tendency to stay where you put it?

Exactly!
Mike (Grenadier1758) is correct and Mayo will also work, and so does Ketchup, and Vinegar. BUT...., when I started to try this, it was 15 or so years ago and my son was 3, and his neighborhood name was "Danger Boy". He had no fear of anything, and was adept at getting into all sorts of stuff, anywhere it was stored. (I first started doing it to age knife blades from a factory polish.)
So caustic, proper browning agents were out. Poison Control was already well versed on my boy...,
Mayo goes rancid, and would give the kid food poisoning.
Ketchup has sugar and draws ants (and they are crafty little beggars at getting paces too)
Vinegar beads up and gives the metal "measles".
Mustard he likes but he didn't recognize it when dry and brown, and so a barrel hanging in the basement smeared with the stuff was relatively safe, and he was too if he messed with it, or got into the gun-mustard-jar.

During the same time period my son demonstrated that Soft-Scrub without Bleach is rather safe, but will make a kid very "regular"....
The blue hockey-puck in the blister pack in the bathroom that goes into the toilet water tank does NOT taste good....but does stain your lips very blue, and you spit it out...
The folding aluminum document holders for the tops of manila file folders...the kind that go through two holes punched in the top of a document and then fold over....well they have a thin coating that catches fire before the circuit breaker trips when you jam both ends into a live power socket....
A small sandwich WILL fit in the tray that loads VHS tapes into the VHS player, but it does not come back out, intact....
A 3.5" floppy disc must be removed from the computer without torquing the portion remaining in the A-Drive, or it breaks the A-Drive and that component must be replace on the home computer (twice)...
Red (or any color) finger nail polish on carpet is forever...,

Sorry...., we were talking about the finish on gun barrels and locks...

LD

 

[WRustyLane]

Exactly!
Mike (Grenadier1758) is correct and Mayo will also work, and so does Ketchup, and Vinegar. BUT...., when I started to try this, it was 15 or so years ago and my son was 3, and his neighborhood name was "Danger Boy". He had no fear of anything, and was adept at getting into all sorts of stuff, anywhere it was stored. (I first started doing it to age knife blades from a factory polish.)
So caustic, proper browning agents were out. Poison Control was already well versed on my boy...,
Mayo goes rancid, and would give the kid food poisoning.
Ketchup has sugar and draws ants (and they are crafty little beggars at getting paces too)
Vinegar beads up and gives the metal "measles".
Mustard he likes but he didn't recognize it when dry and brown, and so a barrel hanging in the basement smeared with the stuff was relatively safe, and he was too if he messed with it, or got into the gun-mustard-jar.

During the same time period my son demonstrated that Soft-Scrub without Bleach is rather safe, but will make a kid very "regular"....
The blue hockey-puck in the blister pack in the bathroom that goes into the toilet water tank does NOT taste good....but does stain your lips very blue, and you spit it out...
The folding aluminum document holders for the tops of manila file folders...the kind that go through two holes punched in the top of a document and then fold over....well they have a thin coating that catches fire before the circuit breaker trips when you jam both ends into a live power socket....
A small sandwich WILL fit in the tray that loads VHS tapes into the VHS player, but it does not come back out, intact....
A 3.5" floppy disc must be removed from the computer without torquing the portion remaining in the A-Drive, or it breaks the A-Drive and that component must be replace on the home computer (twice)...
Red (or any color) finger nail polish on carpet is forever...,

Sorry...., we were talking about the finish on gun barrels and locks...

LD

Wow, LD, that's quite a list. Some of it reminds me of, well, me when I was a kid. I used to like to plug different things into the wall socket and watch the sparks fly until I finally got a dose of 115 volts A.C. current. That kinda cured me of that. My mom used to have a list like yours; ya know, boys will be boys. I laughed my arse off at some of those. I think if we had of had a VHS player, it would have a sandwich in it too. But enough of that. I think I would leave the barrel in the white and let it develop a grey patina on it. Of course, it's your call.

 

[Gene L]

I believe in the browning power of mustard and ketchup. When I eat a hot dog with those condiments on them, my poop is dark brown.

 

[Artificer]

So caustic, proper browning agents were out. Poison Control was already well versed on my boy...,

Sorry...., we were talking about the finish on gun barrels and locks...

LD

ROTFLMAO!! That was great! I was the "Second Father" to three kids, two girls and a boy and on more than one occasion, it was very interesting coming home after work to find out what they had been up to during the day. I will NEVER forget the day all three of them were babbling and trying to explain how the new young cat got inside the horizontal freezer in the garage, though one of them had rescued the cat after only a few minutes.

Thank you for the further info.

Gus

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I think I would leave the barrel in the white and let it develop a grey patina on it. Of course, it's your call.

Absolutely!
Real patina is better, but for some folks it takes too much time..,
AND if you get an India origin musket or trade gun..., them dudes polish the steel to look like a chromed bumper.
I don't think even from an 18th century armory, even from The Tower, that Bess barrels and locks were "shiny". I think they were a soft gray since they had no climate control and England isn't a "dry" climate. So they'd have been fighting rust from the day the barrel was finished. Imported barrels from the Dutch or Belgians...again not really "dry" climates.
I've done "demonstrations" in camp, when the site asked us not to use the fire for more than cooking.... seemed some legal-beagle was worried about liability if we poured musket ball. (Sometimes I think these guys raise an objection just to look like they are earning their keep). So we took ashes and oil, and polished, and a few times actually found some proper "brick dust" and used it with oil to polish barrels and locks. They looked pretty similar to "mustard patina and polish" (imho).

LD

 

[Artificer]

So we took ashes and oil, and polished, and a few times actually found some proper "brick dust" and used it with oil to polish barrels and locks. They looked pretty similar to "mustard patina and polish" (imho).

LD

Maybe 10 years ago, I wanted to see what the period polishing materials available to British Solders in the 18th century would actually do to polish barrels, locks, brass parts and brass buttons.

I first tried wood ash and emery powders mixed in olive oil on a rag and found they worked for brass buttons, buckles, etc.

Coarser emery powders gave a somewhat fine polish on the locks and barrels, as I don't believe they would have used fine emery due to the cost. OR maybe they only used it as a final polish when they really had to "spiffy up" before a Grand Review of the Soldiers by the Commanding General or dignitaries?

What I really wanted to try was brick dust, BUT modern bricks are usually harder than period bricks were. So, where does one get 18th century bricks? Well, since I have a good friend in the brick business here in Virginia, I asked him if he could get me some broken 18th century bricks that no one would use for restoration and he said he could do that. THEN I asked him to specifically try getting bricks from old outdoor walls or the brick pieces sometimes placed in the middle of exterior walls to fill up the space in a combination brick and earthen wall. Now at this point he thought I was kidding him, but asked me why? I chuckled and asked, "Gee, don't you guys know the history or your own business?"

Bricks in the 18th century came in different grades (of hardness) according to where they sat in the kiln when the bricks were fired. The bricks closest to the center fire got the hottest and therefore were the hardest. These they used for structural support and exterior walls. The second grade bricks were further from the fire and did not get as hot, so these bricks were normally used in fireplaces and some lesser structural work in out buildings. The third grade were the furthest from the fire and these were the softest. These were used in outdoor walls and ones that broke or were too soft, were used as filler in those walls. My friend was surprised and informed me he didn't know that. Now of course modern bricks all get fired fully hard and the material they are made from usually is controlled in the mix according to how they will be used.

So if one is looking for bricks from which to make brick dust for polishing barrels and locks, it is best to try to find old outdoor wall bricks that have been or will be replaced.

Even the soft brick dust generally did the job of polishing the barrels and locks the fastest, compared to other period abrasives and probably was the cheapest to get. So I imagine it would have been the normal polishing media, except perhaps when they really wanted to shine up the barrels for a special inspection.

A good friend of mine had also found one reference that I personally never saw, but stated at least one unit used a cloth of chain mail sewn to a cloth pad to burnish their barrels. So he had such a chain mail pad made up and it really shined up the barrels. I imagine burnishing the Iron/Steel parts with a steel rod may do the same thing, but never got around to trying it.

Gus

 

[WRustyLane]

Howdy Gus,
I found your 18th century brick report to be interesting. Seems I learn something new every day. I do have some 19th century bricks that came from Margaret Mitchell's home place. The Margaret Mitchell that wrote "Gone With The Wind". When we lived in Jonesboro, GA, my friend and I went to the place where her old homestead was and collected a few bricks from the foundation that held up the house. We also collected some water pipes that were left there when they moved the house after indoor plumbing was added later to the house. Of course I have no way to prove that it came from her house other than we knew where it used to sit. No letters nor proof of identification. The bricks were a lot softer than modern bricks. I think I still have them somewhere out in my barn.

 

[Kansas Jake]

I've seen soft bricks around old homesteads here in the Great Plains area. In many cases, those bricks were made from local clay fired in the area by a do it yourselfer. We had one farm with remnants of the kiln in a hillside where the homesteader/farmer made his own bricks for foundations and chimneys. His elderly son pointed it out to me in the 1970s.

 

[jbwilliams3]

I’ve got a supply of 18th and 19th century bricks I’ve picked up over the years. I see them at historic sites all the time, but I wouldn't feel right taking even a small piece from those places. I have friends though with family homesteads that had no problem with me taking a few pieces from an old burned down outbuilding. I’ve used brick dust mixed with pine tar as a “cutler resin” to make a period resin for axe /knife handles and I use it mixed with oil as a polishing compound as described above. It works great and is a contemporary method to the technology I'm using it on to boot!

 

[Artificer]

Howdy Gus,
I found your 18th century brick report to be interesting. Seems I learn something new every day. I do have some 19th century bricks that came from Margaret Mitchell's home place. The Margaret Mitchell that wrote "Gone With The Wind". When we lived in Jonesboro, GA, my friend and I went to the place where her old homestead was and collected a few bricks from the foundation that held up the house. We also collected some water pipes that were left there when they moved the house after indoor plumbing was added later to the house. Of course I have no way to prove that it came from her house other than we knew where it used to sit. No letters nor proof of identification. The bricks were a lot softer than modern bricks. I think I still have them somewhere out in my barn.

Thank you for the kind words.

I found that information in a soft cover book on 18th century Trades, that I purchased at Colonial Williamsburg in the early 2,000's. (At the time I was researching information to make and equip an 18th Century Artificer's Tool Box and Kit.) Even though I purchased the book for other information, I also found the information on brick making interesting. I really didn't think at that time the information would prove useful in other areas, though.

It was only after I got down to researching oils and cleaning materials Gunsmiths and Artificers used, that the information from the brick making chapter became relevant for me and especially for hunting down original 18th century bricks to turn into brick dust.

Much to my personal pleasure, the more I study 18th century technology and history generally, the more I find things that dovetail into specific areas, where I hadn't imagined beforehand they did so.

Gus

 

[Kansas Jake]

Gus, just a quick thank you for all the knowledge you are willing to share with us all here on the forum.

 

[Artificer]

Gus, just a quick thank you for all the knowledge you are willing to share with us all here on the forum.

It is my pleasure to share with others what I've learned and thank you for the kind words.

Gus

 

[satwel]

I have read that urine was used as an old browning solution. It was an off the cuff statement about historic practices and was not the subject of the work. I don’t know that it’s true. Urine did get used ‘industrially’ back then.
If ( and I don’t know that it was) urine was used it would explain it not being in records of shop stores as it was readily available.
Should some one ask you how to brown their barrel and you tell them to go, um, a, urinate on it you may get a jaundice eye in return.

Urine mixed with iron filings was used to brown barrels back in the day. I've never met anyone who has browned a barrel that way, but a friend who repairs original flintlock fowlers admitted to me that he has used urine to add patina to a newly made replacement part. If you want to try it, he says urine collected immediately after rising in the morning is the most potent. He warms the metal part slightly before he dunks it.