To vent or not to vent: is it safe?

[Ppanepinto]

I’ve been reading the post here on the site, and the also the builder site such as Caywood gunbuilders, Sitting Fox, TVM, etc”¦ While reading Caywood’s site, I read this

Touch-hole liners; faster ignition or time bomb?

“These modern removable touch hole liners have the added risk of being un-seated from their threads and becoming a deadly flying object.”

“If you've heard of barrels bursting at the breech area, you're probably hearing about a barrel in which a touch hole liner was installed.”

As I’m a first time builder, to say this scares me a little would be an understatement. So is it safe to use a vent or should I just go with a touch hole?

 

[MercerLake]

:v The key is to properly thread the barrel to alow the liner to be a tight fit in the threads. A sloppy job is dangerous with either flint or percussion. The threads must be fully engaged. If in doubt, then just drill the vent hole into the barrel, liners were meant originally as a repair, so if it "ain't broke don't fix it". :v

 

[wattlebuster]

I have a Caywood 12 ga game gun an love it an I also like Danny an think he builds some great guns, but I also like Chambers white lightning vent liners an I have them in some of my builds. I really dont think you need a vent liner, you can cone a vent inside or out an they are just as fast to me as a liner. I have complete faith in my Caywood outside coned vent but I also have faith in my white lightning. I think it is more about how its installed, cleaned, an most of all common sense :thumbsup: loading. Anybody can blow a gun up that is not paying attention to what they are doing. What was it Forrest Gumps momma said (STUDID IS AS STUPID DOES). Use good componets when ya build an apply good common sense an ya should be alright

 

[Birddog6]

:idunno: If he used bored barrels & used no breechplug, he would say HIS was the only safe barrel, as these modern breechplug threads may fail & thus it is not safe. :hmm:

Vent liners have been used for 300 years by gunmakers all over the world..... We are talking of hundreds of Thousands of barrels.... but Caywood deems them all unsafe ? :bull:

IMHO, It is being used as a selling gimmick to make his kits sound better than others, & it doesn't work. I hear & see posts of literally hundreds of kits being sold each year & hardly ever hear of a anyone buying a Caywood kit. I myself would not buy one from him simply because he made such a comment.

Keith Lisle

 

[Davemuzz]

I've been shooting my T\C Hawken for 30+ years and nobody but the deer have died from it yet. The liner has been "updated" to the new cone shaped ones.

I agree with the other posters in that if the shooter isn't paying attention to his firearm, then it could be an accident waiting to happen. Just like it could be with any modern firearm.

Kind of reminds me of M. Bellm and Thompson Center. If there's not a problem with the T\C single shot, Mike will fabricate one in order to sell something.

MHO

Dave

 

[LRB]

:idunno: If he used bored barrels & used no breechplug, he would say HIS was the only safe barrel, as these modern breechplug threads may fail & thus it is not safe. :hmm:

Vent liners have been used for 300 years by gunmakers all over the world..... We are talking of hundreds of Thousands of barrels.... but Caywood deems them all unsafe ? :bull:

IMHO, It is being used as a selling gimmick to make his kits sound better than others, & it doesn't work. I hear & see posts of literally hundreds of kits being sold each year & hardly ever hear of a anyone buying a Caywood kit. I myself would not buy one from him simply because he made such a comment.

Keith Lisle

+1, and then some!!

 

[jerrywh]

Liners are not dangerous. Sloppy gunsmiths are dangerous. In my 55 years of building and working on muzzle loaders I have yet to see or hear of a properly installed breach plug or liner comming out. In the American colonies liners were used as a repair but in Europe and England they were part of the highest priced and best guns made. Especially in fowlers like the Manton's, Egg's, Tathum's, Mortimers and Twigg's.

 

[tg]

Vent liners are safe if done properly, they were used on SOME guns in the past but were not at all common. I quit using them and found a plain hole a drill size under 5/64 works fine, coning the inside might help a bit some do some do not. many now are returning to the more correct use of a plain hole on the type of guns we are building or having built today, which represents the typical gun of the past not a high end or Euro gun. I would suggest trying a plain hole to get the experience of how it was done and how the guns worked in the past and if this is not good enough one can add a liner afterwards.

 

[jerrywh]

If I am correct, Caywood also claims 12L14 barrel steel is also unsafe. Another selling gimic of theirs. I do like Caywood locks though. There are two methods of bragging. One is the common[ I am better than you} The other is the optional [ You are not as good as Me] Caywood is using the later.

 

[LRB]

Another +1 and then some!

 

[Capt. Jas.]

I do like Caywood locks though.

Thenb what you are really saying is you like Mike Rowe's locks. :wink:

 

[jerrywh]

correct.

 

[Rifleman1776]

I have known Danny, and his family, for 30+ years and like him. He makes some fine guns.
But, he, and Charlie, have a couple personal feelings about ml guns that set them aside. They always claimed that a 1:48 twist was the one and only twist that should be used in ml rifle and they would sell none other. I note, that in recent years they are selling other twists. :hmm:
They do not like touch hole liners, as you have pointed out. They pretty much stand alone with this feeling. If you buy one of his guns, it is up to you to leave as is or void the warranty by installing a liner.
BTW, Mike "Kiwi" Rowe left the company about two years ago. I do not know what kind of locks are being used currently. The web site might have that info.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Caywood went on my S-list man6 years ago because he was so rude to my twin brother when he called Caywood about making a Left-handed fowling piece, or Fusil. I don't understand the man's problem, and consider his written advice about liners as you do - just his sales hype. + :thumbsup:

I drilled a 1/64" diameter hole thru the clean-out screw in the drum of my percussion rifle, years ago, to keep the hammer from being blown back past half cock- even with a brand new nipple- using acceptable loads. The mainspring was weaker as the hammer rotated forward, altho it was very strong when at full cock. That hole relived the pressure and kept the hammer on the shattered cap, so it wasn't flying around. Accuracy actually improved, after I vented the action. I was shooting 55 grains of FFFg Goex in the .45 cal. rifle-- hardly a heavy charge of powder.

I did have to make sure no one was standing close to me on the right hand side of the gun, as the blast of smoke, fire, and occasionally debris from that tiny hole traveled 30"+ and could injure such a party.

The gun came from Spain, and was not being made anymore, so no spare parts- including a new main spring-- were then available. They may be now, as the company that made the gun is now exporting much the same gun under different names. :hmm:

 

[Mike Brooks]

BTW, Mike "Kiwi" Rowe left the company about two years ago. I do not know what kind of locks are being used currently. The web site might have that info.

I beleive there is quite a bit to this little episode. from what I understand Rowe doesn't even own the rights to build his own locks after his parting of the way with Caywood. :shake:

 

[gizamo]

Not directed at anyone...

The whole topic is really offset, and a personal attack against Danny Caywood.

So, he is not entitled to his own opinion?

 

[Mike Brooks]

Not directed at anyone...

The whole topic is really offset, and a personal attack against Danny Caywood.

So, he is not entitled to his own opinion?

Ohhhh, now we see.... :hmm: One of those Caywood supporters eh? :haha:

 

[jerrywh]

Is telling the truth about somebody a personal attack??? Get real.

 

[gizamo]

Actually, yep... :wink:

Owned three Caywoods. Since then, my preference has been no liners. They simply are irrelevant to a properly built gun. When I finally get around to building that 25 caliber squirrel gun, ....am hoping you are willing to forego the liner. :thumbsup: