To welt, or not to welt?

[MIOutdoorsman]

This question is for the bag-makers in our group. I'm starting to work on my second bag, following the patterns in TC Albert's book. This time around I will be using the small strip of material that makes the bag a little fatter at the bottom.

My questions have to do with what I believe is referred to as a "welting" strip. I don't have the book in front of me, so forgive my lack of specifics here. But I'm talking about a small (3/8") strip of leather material that is sewn between the front flap and the back flap (or in this case the little strip of material that extends the bottom of the bag). This piece of leather material would then stick out a little between the two pieces of the bag (front/back) when the leather is turned inside out.

So.. Questions..

(1) Is this just for looks, or does it serve a function?

(2) I have a strip of pre-cut 3/8" leather from Tandy that I ordered for this purpose (I have a very difficult time cutting leather STRAIGHT). The piece that came in is about double the thickness of the leather I will use for the bag. Thoughts?

(3) I don't have a stitching pony or horse.. so I just hold my pieces together by hand and try to keep things straight. Any tips on how to make this process work better? It's not critical if I don't use this "welting" strip, but I think it is critical if I use it.

(4) Bottom line--is it worth it?

 

[tenngun]

When turned the welt makes the seam stronger and gives you a better bag form. So yes it’s well worth it. If you can get to the floor easy you can use your awl to make holes for about two inches then run a saddle stitch. A piece of soft scrap wood makes a good backing to your awl pokes, or absent that some used old paperback books. You don’t need to buy a cut strip as you can trim your inner edge after sewn.
Don’t go more then about two inches at a time or as you move it the holes will get out of line. So hole,sew,hole, repeat.

 

[MIOutdoorsman]

Thanks tenngun. I hadn't thought about the straightness being something that I could trim after sewing it in place. I suppose I could just use my cutting sheers for that...

So would you go with a piece of leather that's the same thickness as the rest of the bag then? Or would the double-thick strip that I have be a better option? I do think that trimming the double-thick piece is probably not going to work..

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I like the welt. It also seems to allow a bit tighter tension since the welt is slightly compressible, allowing the stitcher to pull a wee bit harder.

LD

 

[tenngun]

I’ve never done two, that’s a lot to push through.

 

[Pete44ru]

Don’t go more then about two inches at a time or as you move it the holes will get out of line.

So hole,sew,hole, repeat.

I clamp together whatever I'm sewing, punch a few inches of holes with an awl, sew together what I've punched - then tie off that section of stitching, so the bag won't come apart should any one portion of the stitching give way in the future.

I use a gusset to widen the bag, thin (about 1" wide) at both ends & wider (about 2-1/2" wide) at the center of the gusset - the gusset length is arrived at via measuring around the outside of the front wall of the bag from top down to the bottom & doubling the measurement.

A welt, although not strictly necessary, adds a nice finishing touch. :v

This is the finished bag, my first (done over 20 years ago) - no welt.

 

[BrownBear]

I welt all thinner leathers for strength, but don't see the need when you get up to 4-5 oz other than looks.

You have been getting good advice so far, but even a stitching horse or pony is of limited use on such short seams. Better to do as Albert does, going along every inch or so and putting in a tie (my seamstress wife calls it "basting") to hold things in place as you sew along the seam. Pretty straight forward, and the ties are a great help.

When it comes to piercing 3 pieces of leather, it should be easy even with thicker leather. If it's not easy, your awl is not sharp enough. Period. I've been sewing two layers 10 oz leather recently, and because my awl is sharp, piercing is really no more difficult than a couple of layers of 5 oz.

For getting your awl really sharp, jeweler's rouge is your friend. Shape the awl as finely as you can with a file and stones, then move on to 1200 grit paper, then 1800 grit paper, then a succession of rouges. I go with green, then red, then white. You can make your own leather strop for working with rouge, but this is a handy little version to keep in your tool kit. Apply a little oil to the leather in a spot, rub in your choice of colors, then polish the awl.

Try piercing your leather now and then at various steps through the process. Pretty cool to feel it getting easier and easier. In the end, after the white rouge, it should be as smooth and shiny as the chrome bumper on a 57 Chevy with no visible scratches or grooves. And if it's shaped right, it will go through the leather almost like the leather isn't there.

 

[Artificer]

So would you go with a piece of leather that's the same thickness as the rest of the bag then? Or would the double-thick strip that I have be a better option? I do think that trimming the double-thick piece is probably not going to work..

You have gotten some good advice in this thread and an excellent "How To" article by Brown Bear on sharpening your leather awl.

Not sure if we have really answered your questions above, though?

My advice is use the same leather for the welt as you did for the pouches. That or the same type and thickness of leather, if you don't have enough of the original leather to do it.

Gus

 

[George]

A lot of good advice, and if you decide to do the welt I'm sure even more is available from several very experienced leather workers as that goes along. Let me be a bit of an odd-man-out. I have never used welt on a bag, don’t really see a need for it. I have bags which have seen hard use for 35-40 years, and they show it. Greasy and stained inside and out, worn slick from rubbing against my hip, loaded with lead, dragged through all kinds of scrub and trash, soaked with water and sweat... well, just generally used and abused, but I've never had to make even the slightest repair.

You will not be building an inferior bag if you choose to skip the welt.





Spence

 

[BrownBear]

You will not be building an inferior bag if you choose to skip the welt.

You're absolutely right.

As for why welt in the first place, I only do it with leathers lighter than 4 oz and don't see it as anything more than a style with thicker leathers.

In my experience the welt acts somehow to "cushion" or strengthen the seam against tears with thinner leather. At the same time though, I'm going to a real fine stitch (generally 10 stitches per inch but sometimes 12) on thinner leathers for the same reason. Might be a "chicken or egg" situation, whether it's the welt, the finer stitching or the combo that is resulting in the stronger seams.

 

[Artificer]

"As for why welt in the first place, I only do it with leathers lighter than 4 oz and don't see it as anything more than a style with thicker leathers. "

Please understand I am not trying to nitpick you, but I believe you mean in Veg Tan leathers, correct?

After examining the "Stoned Oil Sides" in person, that you have recommended before, I think I would welt seams in a bag made of that leather, even though it is rated as "Weight/Thickness: 4 to 4.5 oz." This because this leather is thinner than Veg Tan leather in the same weight. https://www.tandyleather.com/en/product/stoned-oil-sides

BTW, I have not caught up on other projects yet, but am looking forward to getting some of that leather in "Tan," as it is really a light brown color and is the color I prefer of the colors available, though I might also try the "Dark Brown."

Gus

 

[BrownBear]

Zackly. The discussion so far has been about veg tan. Introduce oil tanned and some of the other options, and the door flies open.

For example, my wife wanted a soft leather case for a new lens and her pick was Tandy's Mission Grain Lining at 1.5 to 2 oz. I ended up using a folded welt (i.e., double thickness) AND 12 stitches per inch, plus backers for both the zipper and the hanging strap. Noooooo room for a stitch to part or leather to tear under the loving caress of a 5.5 pound lens!

It would be the same with such thin soft leather (basically "glove" leather) on any traditional-style bag or pouch intended to heft a bit of weight.

 

[MIOutdoorsman]

Thanks everyone. This is really a fantastic group of craftsmen on this site! I'm leaning towards going ahead with the welt, and seeing if I can cut the requisite pieces necessary from the same piece of hide that I cut out the bag pieces from.

I also think that I'm going to cut a larger gusset piece than what the pattern originally called for.

Rob

 

[BrownBear]

... seeing if I can cut the requisite pieces necessary from the same piece of hide that I cut out the bag pieces from.

I also think that I'm going to cut a larger gusset piece than what the pattern originally called for.

Good thinking on both counts. If cut from the same hide, all the pieces of leather will turn out the same when dying. If cut from different hides, results are pot luck at best.

My hands are really thick in the middle even if my fingers are stubby compared to the size of my palms. The most important measure for me in bags is whether or not I can close my hand into a fist inside the bag (as when grabbing something), then pull my closed fist back out without hanging up. Small detail, but big on results.

 

[longcruise]

So.. Questions..

(1) Is this just for looks, or does it serve a function?

(2) I have a strip of pre-cut 3/8" leather from Tandy that I ordered for this purpose (I have a very difficult time cutting leather STRAIGHT). The piece that came in is about double the thickness of the leather I will use for the bag. Thoughts?

(3) I don't have a stitching pony or horse.. so I just hold my pieces together by hand and try to keep things straight. Any tips on how to make this process work better? It's not critical if I don't use this "welting" strip, but I think it is critical if I use it.

(4) Bottom line--is it worth it?

Like others have said, I don't find welting to be necessary and don't do it on bags but always on knife sheaths. But, they look good so do it if it pleases you.

The thing about cutting welt strips is that once you cut your bag sides, the welt strips are half cut. Just make another cut outside of the front or back piece cut to the width of the desired welt.

As to number 3, maybe I'm breaking some "rules" but I glue the parts together with contact cement prior to punching holes and sew it up with no clamps or ponys. Be careful with the glue. Don't get any on surfaces that will be exposed if you plan to dye after assembly since it will mostly prevent dye from penetrating the leather. One simple solution is to dye all the parts before assembly.

 

[Stophel]

This question is for the bag-makers in our group. I'm starting to work on my second bag, following the patterns in TC Albert's book. This time around I will be using the small strip of material that makes the bag a little fatter at the bottom.

My questions have to do with what I believe is referred to as a "welting" strip. I don't have the book in front of me, so forgive my lack of specifics here. But I'm talking about a small (3/8") strip of leather material that is sewn between the front flap and the back flap (or in this case the little strip of material that extends the bottom of the bag). This piece of leather material would then stick out a little between the two pieces of the bag (front/back) when the leather is turned inside out.

So.. Questions..

(1) Is this just for looks, or does it serve a function?

(2) I have a strip of pre-cut 3/8" leather from Tandy that I ordered for this purpose (I have a very difficult time cutting leather STRAIGHT). The piece that came in is about double the thickness of the leather I will use for the bag. Thoughts?

(3) I don't have a stitching pony or horse.. so I just hold my pieces together by hand and try to keep things straight. Any tips on how to make this process work better? It's not critical if I don't use this "welting" strip, but I think it is critical if I use it.

(4) Bottom line--is it worth it?

(1) It does make for a good looking seam, and it does keep things from getting wrinkly, and as was said by another, it does aid in pulling your thread tight.

(2) For a shot bag, just use the same leather as the rest of the bag. Buy yourself a strap cutter. They're probably less than 20 bucks and money well spent.

(3) I still don't have a stitching pony, though I desperately need one. As for punching your stitch holes, buy yourself an "overstitch wheel" and learn how to use it to mark all your holes and punch them all before sewing the pieces together. No more trying to hold stuff together in place to punch holes a few at a time. :wink: I've done plenty of that and don't do it anymore.

(4) Generally, yes, it is very much worth it.

 

[Black Hand]

I do not have a stitching pony, but one isn't difficult to build. https://thecraftycouple.wordpress.com/how-to/how-to-make-a-leathercraft-stitching-pony/

I hold my pieces together with multiple small binder clips and punch the holes with an awl a few (or one) at a time. This keep the pieces even and allows you to adjust stitching to accommodate the leather.

While is can see how an overstitch wheel could be very handy, I've never used or needed one. With very little effort, evenly distributed holes can be punched with an awl which allows you to adjust the stitching to accommodate the leather.