touch hole liner

[fraungie]

I was shooting my .36 caliber blue ridge rifle today. I have a touch hole liner. with an allen key hole. I cannot get it out and have rounded the hex hole. I am afraid to use an easy out. This may cause me more damage. It is a stainless liner. Is there a problem if I leave it in. There is definitely a chamber at he back of the bore that is smaller than the bore and comnnects to the liner. I normaly take out the liner clean in there wit h a Q tip and use a .22 brush on the end of my ramrod to get the crud out of the chamber. With the liner out I could see how clean it was. I am afraid of not getting out all the crud and having mis fires or hang fires. What do you guys think? What abot rusting in that chamber?

 

[hanshi]

Normally there's no need to remove a liner to clean a gun. Using the small brush and pipe cleaners should clean the flash channel.

 

[Ken Rummer]

I just bought a Blue Ridge in 54 cal. My vent liner had a screwdriver slot rather than an allen socket. It was very hard to remove.

When I got it out I found the thread diameter on the liner to be .312. The liner is M8x1.25 thread and if you go to a hardware store and buy a 8mm cap screw you will find the thread OD to be .307. I think Pedersoli intended the liner have very little clearance in the thread and to be tight.

I got my liner out using a screwdriver bit that fit the slot correctly. I think you are stuck with drilling it out and using an easy-out to remove it. You can do a lot of shooting before you need to replace the liner.

Track of the Wolf sells a tool with an o-ring seal that clamps over the vent liner allowing cleaning with both the liner and the stock in place. Also, this forum has hundreds of posts from longgun shooters that clean the old fashioned way.

 

[ohio ramrod]

It sounds like you did not oil or use antisize when you last installed the liner. Also you may have used an "english" allen wrench instead of a metric which would round off the recess. My personal (some will disagree) recomendation is that you get an easy out and remove the liner (after soaking in kroil by puting a tootpick or simular plug in the flash hole and pouring some down the breech and letting it stand over night. )Then put in a new liner coated with anti size and leave the new liner in rather than remove it every time you clean. The longer you leave the current liner in the harder it will be to remove. :idunno:

 

[Rifleman1776]

there's no need to remove a liner to clean a gun.

Agree. Should be removed only in extreme circumstances.
At this point, drill and ez-out. Replace and leave alone.

 

[ebiggs1]

Ohio ramrod is correct. You need to get it out and I suspect you didn't use the right Allen wrench.
My humble opinion is those that think they get there guns as clean with the liner installed are fooling themselves. At the very least they don't do it as easily. You can do as you please but think about it for a moment. :hmm: Can you get better cleaning results through a 1/16th hole or a 1/4 inch hole? :hmm: The inside back of the liner creates crevices for crud to hide which is never touched by cleaning patches or brushes.
Wearing the threads on the barrel or liner out is simply nonsense. :shocked2:

 

[jerrywh]

Your experience proves it's best not to remove the liner for cleaning. What else does it take?
You will no doubt fine some here who insist on shining the bottom of their shoes. To those I say,
have fun.

 

[Stumpkiller]

Wearing the threads on the barrel or liner out is simply nonsense. :shocked2:

While it is practically impossible to wear out a thread, it's not hard to damage one - or the surrounding metal. It only takes one misalignment, over-torquing or "buggering" to ruin a thread or socket. There is a whole large company, Heli-coil, that lives because folks ruin threads every day in things like glow plugs and spark plugs.

I have owned two flinters with no vent insert at all and two that I never once have removed the liner (it's filed flush with the barrel). Installed properly it's like the breech plug: not a concern to routine cleaning. The threads are snug and sealed tight.

How did Joe Flintlockuser clean his rifle 200 years ago before all these tube attachments and allen wrenches? With damp patches or tow followed by dry & then oil.

You don't pull out the freeze-plugs in your car's engine block when you add Prestone, do you?

 

[tg]

Removing a liner is not requirement for good cleaning as noted by others, if all that is wrong is a goobered allen socket and the liner was not loosened at all I would just use it as is.As for fooling themselves if the do not remove a liner to clean that comes from a real lack of understanding and experience from folks who probably never removed the drum and only the nipple with caplocks which is the same thing, inexperienced folks who Parrot a bunch of garbage that sounds good to them but has little merit is the reason that others have problems as described in this post.

 

[Grandpa Ron]

Personally I never remove the touch hole liner except to replace it. Then I use an easy out.

The liner on my trade gun had opened to 0.090 “plus, so I replaced it. I knew it was time when, 2f blew out the touch hole during loading. :grin:

It made a big difference.

The new hole is only 0.043”, that is supposed to be a bit small, but it works and does not hang fire or fail to go off.

I am from the old school and still remove the barrel and place it in a bucket of hot soapy water to clean.

My first choice is one of the brass colored liner which I think is beryllium or some such material but I have used the stainless steel liners also.

 

[Semisane]

I'm with ohio ramrod. Get it out with an easy out and replace it with an RMC liner. But my liner comes out with every cleaning.

 

[fraungie]

The liner is an RMC and I used the allen key that came with it. The rifle had a straight screw slot on it origialy and I replaced it with the RMC. I put never sieze on it every time I cleaned it. The rifle has sat for about 3 years after I cleaned it the last time. I ran a dry patch down the barrel before I loaded it this last time and the patch was clean. I am afraid with the short distance across the chamber the eazy out may bottom out on the far side before it bites into the liner. If you feel it is not necessry to take the liner out every time Maybe I should leave it alone until I really need to take it out which may never happen. Thank you for all the help.

 

[tg]

If you did not loosen it I would leave it be just my opinion, I would not take it out if it were mine and I was certain it was snug

 

[fraungie]

It is flush with the oputside of the barrel. i don't think it can go in any further.

 

[ebiggs1]

Do you know how many times I have heard your reasoning about damaging threads in the past 40 years of tool and die making? I think I have heard every excuse there is for someone damaging the threads on something. It simply isn't so. There is no excuse for damaging a screw thread.
There may be reasons for not removing the liner for cleaning but damaging the threads should not be among them. Also a flintlock without a liner is a different situation than one with a liner.
If you had to come up to me at work and told me you needed a Heli-coil, you would have been shunned out of the shop. We had dies that cycled millions of times, year after year, and on-off the press changes and make-readies with no damage to the threads. It just wasn't allowed and neither should it be permitted on a flintlock liner. :shocked2:

I can, however, understand thread damage to spark plug threads precisely because they are NOT removed for many thousands of miles and they become one with the cylinder head,. Hey, that may be a good case FOR removing the spark plug periodically and/or even a touch liner! :thumbsup:

 

[Larry Pletcher]

I have heard both sides of this discussion for many years, and don't have the tool and die experience to warrant an addition. Damaged threads are more likely caused by cross threading than wear, but my concern isn't damaged threads. I have seen a number of nipples that were flame cut across the threads. I don't know if wear causes that or not; I'm open to your ideas. My best guess is that flame cut threads did not have a high enough thread contact. That's measured in %???

Regards,
Pletch

 

[Stumpkiller]

Do you know how many times I have heard your reasoning about damaging threads in the past 40 years of tool and die making? I think I have heard every excuse there is for someone damaging the threads on something. It simply isn't so. There is no excuse for damaging a screw thread.
There may be reasons for not removing the liner for cleaning but damaging the threads should not be among them. Also a flintlock without a liner is a different situation than one with a liner.
If you had to come up to me at work and told me you needed a Heli-coil, you would have been shunned out of the shop. We had dies that cycled millions of times, year after year, and on-off the press changes and make-readies with no damage to the threads.

:hatsoff: And you are probably someone who takes great care and the lock and vent on your firearms appear as new.

But then there are those whose two screwdrivers both came from Lowes, are used as often to pry open paint cans or scrape gaskets as to turn screws, and who can't install a riflescope without buggering two of the eight screws and snapping a third off flush in the hole. I have seen enough "shade-tree mechanic" (aka: "monkey mechanic" or "farmerized") damaged fasteners to know even those who know better sometimes don't do it correctly. Certainly, one should have a basic grip on mechanical techniques. But don't assume it is universal.

You'd think hunters would be expert at sharpening and caring for their knives, but I have seen things which I consider blade damage that send shivers up my spine. Some guys are just darned hard on their gear while others are not.

 

[rancher]

I take my touch hole out every time I clean my flintlock. Never had a problem with it.

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

Good post Stumpy, well said.

No reason to remove a liner if the gun is cleaned properly.

 

[Coot]

Well, my guns that do have touch hole liners all have the liners filed smooth with the barrel flat so the only time they are going to come out is when/if they need to be replaced. That said, I have seen any number of modern & antique guns with buggered up screw heads and more than a couple of broken, cross threaded or worn out screws that were the result of improper tools, over or under tightening or plain incorrect reassembly. Seems like the sale of guns far exceeds the sale of good gun screwdriver sets and that many shooters are of the "get-r-done" school with no respect for their weapon. :shake:

PS - with Christmas coming, wouldn't a nice gun screwdriver set be a great Dad gift?