Touch hole problem

[karlk]

This is a question for the experienced builders out there. I just finished my first kit. When I put everything back together after drilling for the touch hole liner(White Lightning), the touch hole itself lined up with the bottom of the pan instead of the top like the directions stated :cursing: . Is this a big deal? I've thought about filing the bottom of the pan so the touch hole is placed higher, but figured I'd ask the experts before I did anything.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

 

[paulvallandigham]

That is a big problem. I don't know how you could file the pan down enough to get the touchhole high enough to give you reliable ignition. I would plug the hole, and then redrill it properly for the liner.

When my percussion gun was converted to flint- I bought a lock specifically because the manufacturer advertised his locks were interchangeable from percussion to flint, the the hole drilled for the drum and nipple was off center and low for a touch hole liner. My gunmaker welded a plug into the first hole, and then redrilled the hole for the liner, locating it properly. The gun works fine. He already had the breechplug out of the barrel, and that will be needed to do this properly.

 

[Birddog6]

Well, that is a problem. :hmm: My first thought is go to a larger liner & that would lift the hole a tad. After looking at some vent liners, even going from a 1/4" vent liner to a 3/8" one will only lift it about 1/16" or so (? maybe) & then you would run out of barrel flat most likely.

Personally, I would get a new barrel just like the one ya messed up & do it over, as that is the correct way to solve the problem. Save the old barrel, have it cut & rebreeched & use it for the next rifle, make a 40" barrel from it or whatever, no big deal, it is just a barrel.

I don't like the idea of plugging & redrilling for another liner as now you have 2 sets of threads in there, you end up with a vent liner above ? 1/4 of the plug, etc........ that just don't set well with me, nor does welding up a breech on one set well with me. I know some guys weld on barrels but I never felt comfortable with it.
If I were going to plug it, I would do so with a very fine thread plug (like a 28 or 32 tpi). You will have to cut rifling into the plug in the bore & get it smoothed out so your jag don't catch & etc. Then I would drill the plug & drill a higher vent hole in the plug & cone it best I could from the inside with a carbide burr. If you need the pan deeper, then make it deeper. Be sure to leave enough meat at the bottom of the pan to seal to the barrel flat, and you need a GOOD fit there especially if you are removing meat there. I like mine to have less than .001 gap at the flashpan/barrel fit & not have to torque the lock bolts.
:thumbsup:

 

[Vaino]

For now, I would take a Dremel w/ a suitable grinding wheel and deepen the pan, leaving some metal at the bottom of the bolster for a tight fit w/ the barrel. Shoot it and see how fast the ignition is, keeping in mind to not "overdose" the pan. Plugging the barrel and installing a new TH liner can get messy, especially for an inexperienced builder. By the way, is the lock inlet too high?.....Fred

 

[Black Hand]

Try shooting it like it is. If you get reliable ignition, then it's not a problem. If it doesn't fire well, I would then deepen the pan and try again. If it is still a problem, at that point I would try to replace the liner with the hole drilled a bit off center to bring up the level of the touchhole. Another option could be to enlarge the touch hole a bit. But then again, THIS IS WHAT I WOULD DO. Proceed at your own risk.......

 

[Mike Brooks]

A bunch of good solutions to a difficult problem. I myself would deepen the pan a bit and try it out the way it is. It doesn't take much priming powder to do the job, it may just work out fine the way it is. :thumbsup:

 

[John Taylor]

You could drill and tap the hole bigger and use a bolt for a plug then drill the hole in the right spot. As an added precaution solder the bolt in so it can't move. Use a soft steel bolt, don't need a #8, the barrel is made from a soft steel. The solder will keep it in place and allow you to drill part way into the threads if need be. Also the slder will seal it from leaking. This way you don't need to buy a new barrel or deepen the pan. Use a solder that has no lead like plumbers solder. It does work, I have done it before.

 

[karlk]

Thanks for the great suggestions. The lock is a Chamber's Colonial Virginia and the bottom of the touch hole lines up with the pan. The top of the touch hole is just a hair below the top of the pan, so I decided to file the pan a bit lower so the touch hole is above the pan. I didn't file much. I'm going to test the gun this weekend and if it doesn't work well, I'll try one of the more involved solutions. I'll let everyone know how it works out.

Thanks again for the replies. :bow:

 

[bioprof]

I am relatively new to building muzzleloaders, but I have read in one older building book from the 1960's that the touchole is supposed to be centered in the bottom of the pan. I also showed a pistol that I finished recently to a longtime muzzleloading dealer, and he said that the touchole should be in the bottom of the pan, not at the top like I had it. Thus, I have surmized that the views of contemporary muzzleloader builders have changed over the last 50 years. I'm sure the rifles made in the early 1960's worked then, so maybe touchole placement isn't that critical???

 

[aragorn]

You may find you have to prick the vent hole more often to clear it, as crud on the pan might be more likely to clog the hole if it's closer to the pan surface.

The alternative would be to drill for a touch hole liner the next size up. I don't see why this should be a problem - drilling removes the existing threads, you tap it, and it should be perfectly strong enough. If it overlaps the barrel flat slightly you can file it flush. But even so, I'd only go this route if you are really conviced it's necessary, just because an error in the drilling, tapping or screwing (it's quite easy to strip threads) would decommission your barrel. Chances are you have a fine shooter as it is.

 

[Zonie]

In the BLACK POWDER GUIDE by Major George Nonte, c. 1969, on page 106, the author, speaking of locating the lock relative to a punch mark on the barrel for the flash hole vent says:
"...Now lay the lock plate, with flashpan attached, on the side of the stock, postioning it so that the punch mark lies just above the bottom center of the pan..."

On page 110 however, there is a drawing which clearly shows the vent located above the bottom of the pan and basically in line with the flats at the top of the pan.

I'm not sure why anyone would intentionally place the vent at the bottom of the pan. It seems like a sure fire way of assuring a slow ignition because the pan powder would cover most if not all of the vent.
As we know, if the vent hole is covered with the prime, the rifle will not fire until the prime has burned down to uncover the hole.

In my own mind, the best location for the center of the vent is just slightly above the top of the pan.
My idea here is that if the center of the hole is slightly above the top of the pan, the bottom of the vent hole would be just slightly below or be even with the top of the pan.
If the hole was located like this, when the pan cover is closed over the prime, the vent hole would be blocked off from the pans priming.
This would assure that the vent is always open and ready to recieve the priming flash, even if the gun was jostled while it was being carried.

Located in this slightly "above the pan" position, the thickness of the frizzen would need to totally cover the hole when the frizzen was closed. Some locks have rather thin covers in this area while others are moderatly thick.
With the thin cover frizzens using this idea may not be practical but with the thicker frizzen locks it could be achieved.

I feel the idea is worth considering.

Zonie