TOW Rifle Kit

[paul f]

OK I have shot production percussion rifles for a while and thoroughly enjoy them. I recently started casting my own ball and cutting my own patches- on the bore- and have made several trips to Friendship (try explaining to your non-ML
friends why you would spend vacation time there!). Now I have been intrigued by what could be learned from building a rifle and also the world of flintlocks. So to my point-
as a novice builder which is the most promising (insert easiest) rifle style to attempt: full-stock v. half-stock and percussion v. flintlock. I have looked at several kits from TOW that with some of their optional gunsmith services seem quite reasonable. Am I simply courting frustration? What has been the experience of others?

 

[rootnuke]

I have never built a muzzleloader nor worked on a gun in my life. I selected the TOW 1770 Early Lancaster because it was a simple time in the ML world and seemed to me that if I wanted to do some fancier things I could, but fancy was not expected as with the Golden Age.
I opted for the barrel lugs and sights to be mounted by TOW. However I will not have them mount the hardware in the future because I can see how it's done and will do it myself. There was just something a little scary about taking a hacksaw to a 189.00 swamped barrel.
One thing I have discovered, the $700-900.00 is just the start for the kit. Your gonna get 40.00, 50.00 and 75.00 $ to death for all the books and stuff. Maybe you won't need to buy certain tools or books. But what I find is I don't "get it" until I see it in writing in 3 places then study 10 pictures about it.
If you don't have many of the tools and books to start, well that could be 200-500.00 in all kinds of stuff like decent chisels, gravers, main-spring clamps, extra bolts, drill bits, sand paper, assorted files.

:m2c:

 

[Zonie]

Paul: What rootnuke says about tools is true if you don't have a lot of good files and chisels. You will need several of each.
As for the books, you can get by with just a basic book like The Art of Building the Pennsylvania Longrifle by Chuck Dixon, Dave Ehrig and Dave Miller. It costs about $21 and covers just about all you need.
You also have one of the most powerful tools a person could ask for, that being this Forum site. There are many builders here who will be happy to help you with any problems you might come up with.

As for the type, I say the Precussion style is the hardest to build.
Most Flintlock guns were made during the Full Stock era so if you don't have a "special" gun already in mind, a fullstock rifle would be the way to go.
There is little difference in the degree of difficulty between building a full stock and a half stock rifle.
The biggest difference is the half stock rifles usually use flattened Wedge type keys while the full stock uses pins to attach the barrel to the stock. The halfstock rifles usually have a "underlug" with the thimbols attached to it and it in turn is attached to the bottom of the barrel.

At this stage of the game, I would recommend that you buy the book I mentioned above. Read it from cover to cover (It is actually pretty good reading, not like some information only text book). After reading it, you will have a better idea of all the things envolved and whether you want to invest the money in hardware.

 

[rootnuke]

I would also suggest Recreating The American Longrifle which I think compliments Dixons book nicely. If you would like yet another the is always The Gunsmith of Grenville County.
:m2c:

 

[Trina]

Paul,
You have gotten some good advice...both books stated have helped me a great deal...especially "the art of building the pennsylvania longrifle"....My biggest frustration is the tools...I started with none and have just purchased the bare minimum. This was my first project ever like this...I bought a Issac Haines Kit from TOW and have been very happy with it...I think the main thing to keep in mind is READ,ask questions, dont get in a hurry and if your tired or aggravated... dont even look at it..the mistakes I have made were made because I was tired.. I have one underlug left to inlet then its ready to be pinned together :: OH!!! and be warned, your first, WONT be your last :winking: much to my hubbys dismay. Have fun

 

[Donny]

Since you asked.....You gotta learn and start sometime...
Paul, beware of purchasing from TOW, excellent stuff, but they have a habit of neglecting to mention things like lock, stock and barrel will come in one at a time over 7 months, or more. Ask, when ordering, if the part is in stock now. ..The most difficult gun to build for me was a halfstock Hawken. The rib and thimbles must be soldered well. Nose cap applied properly. Triggerguard to plate done correctly. The lockplate must match the pat. breech tight.
For a first gun, I recomend a southern mountain fullstock, surviving examples are known to be downright crude, without a buttblate, nosecap, etc, hence a less than first quality workmanship gun would not be out of place, as a penn. style would usually have been built by very good smithy or apprentice. Or think about a NW trade gun, (smoothie or rifle). Both rather simple styles, easiest to build. Some did not have a trigger plate, the trigger was pinned in a hole through the stock..If you go flint, (and why not?) Buy none other than a a Jim Chambers lock. As far as percussion, any lock will pop a cap.

 

[LSU TIGER]

Don't forget tools! Rootnuke mentions books, but I've spent at least $1,500 on tools. Everything from a drill press and bandsaw to gouges. The sad thing is, I still need more! :results:

 

[Zonie]

Now, LSU Tiger, your going to scare him (and others) off with all o that talk about $1500 worth of tools. ::

But actually I can say you will have to have some Good Screwdrivers, a Very Good 1/4 inch and 1/2 inch chisel, a Good single cut mill file, a bastard file, and a double cut bastard file. A couple of rat-tail files are handy too.
A electric drill is nice, and a set of drill bits to go with it. A #8-32, #10-32,& 1/4-28 tap with the handle to drive them with.
LOTS of sandpaper (both garnet for wood and Silicone Carbide wet/dry for metal)along with a block of wood for a sanding block and maybe a 1/4 dia and a 5/16 dia wooden dowel to make sanding blocks for sanding radii.

The Power Bench grinder and polishing wheels, Drill Press, Dremal Tool, Belt Sander, Band Saw, Router, Drum Sander etc are all great to have, but you really don't need them if your working on one of TOW or Pecatonica Rifles "kits".

The main thing is as Cookie mentioned: you MUST HAVE is a LOT of time and the ability not to hurry any part of the project.

 

[LSU TIGER]

You are right, Zonie. My point was that good tools are expensive. I don't have a huge collection of gouges and chisels, but I found that the hardware store variety just won't make it. The critical part is holding an edge, which a $25 chisel made by Henry Taylor or Pfeil will do. The only type that comes close that's affordable is the Buck Bros. chisels at Home Depot. Check out the Woodcraft website. The carving tool and chisel sections will be most helpful. :relax:

 

[rootnuke]

Now just how are you gonna drill a precision hole from one side of the stock to the other with accuracy without a drill press. I know the Egyptions built the pyramids within one inch of level but I don't have 100 years to measure.
I read (I think it was Dixon's) that you could build a muzzle loader on the couch or kitchen table. If your married, it aint gonna happen. If your not married, its gonna look like a 800.00 dollar kit that turned out to be a 600.00 rifle.
No sir I gotta shop and buy all kinds of tools to do the task at hand cleanly and efficiently.

so far...

900.00 kit
500.00 tools, books, extra parts, practice parts etc. (ONE TIME COST)

But I'd rather pay 1500.00 and build it to have the experience than 1500.00 for a finished gun.

Next time it's just he kit cost, I'll have everything else. Did I say next time? :what:

 

[54JNoll]

Drilling accurate holes through a stock without a drill press is not hard. Simply use a smaller bit than you finial hole size. Measure and mark the center of the hole from both sides of the stock. Drill half way through the stock from both sides. Connect both holes as you drill with progressively larger bits drilling from just one side.

I used this method to drill all but one hole in my stock using an old rotary cranked hand drill. The one hole I did not do that on ended up low on one side. I did use a drill press to "drill" out most of the patch box cavity but they too could have been done using a bit and brace.

 

[Darkhorse]

You can also use a hand drill with a level to help you drill straight holes. But would I do it? Heck no. I use a drill press.
Since I have been through all this and know the expense of tools, it could be done like this;
Buy a drill press. A $500 to $900 component set is a good excuse.
You can use a 1/4 Stanley chisel for 95% of the work. It will do a good job as long as its kept sharp. By sharp I mean, shave a few strokes, strop a few strokes. Don't let it get dull.
A 3/16" Dogleg chisel from TOW will do a good bit of the work. Again it must be kept sharp.
The 1/2" chisel for me, gathers dust.
You need a couple of good sharpening stones for rough and semi-sharp work.
Go to Woodcarvers supply and buy their cheap honing kit. About $10.00. This is basically leather in different shapes for gouges and chisels and a stick of honing compound. Use it a bunch. This is the best $10 bucks you will ever spend.
Swiss files.
A couple of rat tail files in different diameters.
Flat files from about 6" to 10", fine bastard.
A couple of half rounds.
A couple of coarse (mostly for wood)
These all can be bought cheap at Ace Hardware along with file handles.
A file card to clean the cheap files. Without a file card even the expensive files won't last, so get a card and cheap files.
Shureform (Sp?) rasp.

After you get your lock, side plate, toe plate and anything else that requires a radius, then compare the radius with the full size drawings in your TOW or Woodcarvers supply catalogs. Now you can order the gouges, in the proper size, you need.

You could also buy individual drills if you don't have several sets of fraction and number drills laying around. The same for taps and counterbores.

The sandpaper can also be bought "as needed".

With just these few tools a person can build a fine, functional rifle. No fancy carving mind you but carving never makes one shoot better anyway.

A person could. But did I? No. I buy way too many tools. Just in case I ever need one.
Notice I didn't mention a mainspring vice (or clamp). Because if you ever intend to dissasemble a lock with flat springs (like in inletting a lock mortice) then a mainspring vice is a no-brainer. :m2c:

 

[54JNoll]

True,

You can also make a simple jig to use with your drill press to ensure straight holes.

The point of my post was to provide a way to drill accurate hole without a drill press if the cost of a good press was not yet in the budget.

My "crooked" hole was more a result of getting in a hury and being lazy. The most important thing to keep in mind when using any method is to take your time.

 

[B.Habermehl]

How much for tools? When I started the most sophisticated tool I had was a drill press. As for chisels, Harmen makes some goodies for under 10 bucks each. I believe that I use no more than three chisels to assemble a basic kit gun. 1-3/16 flat chisel, 1-5/32 flat chisel, One 3/16 gouge for the front of the lock mortice. I have a bunch more but these are the most heavily used. The flat chisels are home made from O-1 tool steel. A couple of files, taps and a tap handle, drills to go with. A hack saw and a pin punch. Don't panic about how many tools you need. Just acquire what you need as you need it. It does not hurt near as bad one piece at a time. I bet you all ready have some of this shopping list allready.BJH

 

[Birddog6]

If you want to drill connecting holes & not use a drill press, you make a drill point jig like this out of an old "C" clamp & use a handheld electric drill.

Custom Muzzleloaders & Custom Skinning Knives

 

[Zonie]

Birddog6: Gotta love the pictures! Real tools with real wood chips laying there on the table.
I knew a guy who thought woodworking (and metal working) was too much work.
I went over to his place to give some help on one of his projects. He spent more time cleaning up every little chip and putting every tool back in "its" place after he used it than he did doing the work. No wonder he thought woodworking was a pain.

 

[rootnuke]

If you want to drill connecting holes & not use a drill press, you make a drill point jig like this out of an old "C" clamp & use a handheld electric drill.

Custom Muzzleloaders & Custom Skinning Knives

That is clever indeed. But I have a question. During the course of using different size bits I would think you have an assortment different ID sleeves for the drills, yes? or is it more of a initial starter drill guide then you follow up freehand with the desired size bit?

 

[Birddog6]

RootNuke: If you look at the "C" clamp you see a lil set screw at the drill bushing, you loosen that & slide the lil homemade bushing out & slide in a different bushing with a larger dia. hole for a larger bit. The bushing are lade of the shaft of a bolt I cut up.

The bushing in the photo takes a .073 which is what I drill the holes for my barrel pins & RR pipe pins.

Zonie: Actually that is right after a cleanup & usually it is covered with chips & etc. I usually clean up all the wood chips & metal shavings once a week..... or whenever I have to look for something & can't see it right in front of me. After each rifle everything gets put away & the table cleaned up good & then I start over.

Another tip that may help some. When I am working a rifle I have 2 plastic containers I keep there on the bench... one has sawdust from that rifle & the other has wood chips from that rifle. That way if I have to glue a piece of wood back or use some dust & glue for filler or whatever, I have wood from that same stock & I know it is the same color. To catch the sawdust I lay a opened manilla folder under the stock as I sand it & then pick up up & partially close it & use that to funnel the dust into a container.

Custom Muzzleloaders & Custom Skinning Knives