wilded
40 Cal.
Has anyone built one of these. How difficult are they compared to a Lyman kit for instance. I know I would have to have some of the barrel work done. I really like the looks of the 36" barrel Classic Tennessee longrifle kit.
Track of the Wolf longrifle kits
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Russ T Frizzen
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I've got an early Tennessee rifle almost finished. It really was a collection of parts and a stock with some room to get creative with. Well worth the money and fun to build, but it is more complex than an in the white gun or a kit where all you need to do is some sanding and stock finishing. Having access to a drill press makes it a lot easier. The only moderately tricky part is drilling for the tang bolt. You wind up with a unique rifle that you made yourself--an instant heirloom. Parts quality was excellent.
I've built a couple and am building another Track kit right now. There is a lot of difference between the Lyman or any other production kit and this type of kit.
This is not really a kit in that sense. This is an assortment of the proper parts to build a long rifle. And the stock is partially inlet for most of the pieces.
They say the stock is 95% inlet. Well that leaves the hardest part for you to mess up. All the finish work must be done. Finish inletting, drilling, tapping,general fitting.
No instructions.
Very Very easy to take $700. worth of parts and turn them into a $300. rifle. That is if your lucky.
This is not really a kit in that sense. This is an assortment of the proper parts to build a long rifle. And the stock is partially inlet for most of the pieces.
They say the stock is 95% inlet. Well that leaves the hardest part for you to mess up. All the finish work must be done. Finish inletting, drilling, tapping,general fitting.
No instructions.
Very Very easy to take $700. worth of parts and turn them into a $300. rifle. That is if your lucky.
There are basically two kinds of "kits".
The ones made by companys like Traditions, Lyman, Pedersoli, etc. These are production guns which have been almost finished except for the stock and perhaps the blueing/browning on the metal parts.
The Lyman Great Plains Rifle Kit is a fine example of a high quality kit of this kind.
To finish one of these, all you really need is a couple of screw drivers, a lot of sandpaper, some stock finish and something to brown/blue the barrel, butt plate, trigger guard etc.
These kits are worthwhile for those without more tools or time.
Those of us who build rifles can finish one of these in less than a weeks worth of evenings.
Folks who are new to this might take 3-4 weeks worth of evenings to finish it.
Then there are the Other Kind of "KIT" (which your question was dealing with).
These are sold by Track of the Wolf, Pecatonica River, Muzzleloading Builders Supply, Jim Chambers, Tennessee Valley Muzzleloaders and a host of others.
The quality of the parts is usually excellent, and the cost of the "kit" is high to Very High.
Names like Siler, L&R, Getz, Colerain, Rice, Davis, Chambers, etc are often heard. These parts are some of the very best in the world and they are all made in the United States.
Stock woods are available in Cherry, Walnut, Curly Maple along with some more exotic woods for those who can afford them.
I use the term KIT loosely here.
These are a collection of parts. Most of the parts are unfinished. Some of the parts are still very rough sand castings.
The locks and set triggers are "almost finished" requireing only blueing/browning but the barrel often doesn't have it's breech plug installed, no dovetails for the sights and has a fairly rough finish on the outside.
The stock wood is rough machined into a close to final shape, but there is wood left to remove everywhere. Often the stock has over 2 inches of extra wood to remove when fitting the butt plate.
You will need to know about filing, drilling, tapping, final inletting for the lock, trigger and butt plate.
Even those places who "pre cut" the mortice for the lock etc leave a little wood which requires final fitting to the part which goes there.
The hard part like cutting the barrel channel and the ramrod hole is done but even this will require hand fitting to install the barrel.
The finished gun may take over 150 hours of work.
Some simple, uncarved, unadorned rifles may take a little less. Other rifles with carving and inlays may take a lot more.
I don't want to frighten off anyone who wants to build their own "Custom" rifle (for that is what it will be), but I don't want someone to spend $500+ only to find that this project is too much for them.
We have a Forum here called Builders Bench. When I asked Claude to establish this Forum it was aimed towards the beginner who has a lot of questions. It still is.
Whether you are building a Factory Kit or a Custom "kit" you will find a lot of help there.
There are some of the finest builders in the country who stop by to share their knowledge with anyone who asks a question.
If you decide to order one of the custom kits, remember, most of them offer special services like installing the breech plug in the barrel, installing the underlugs, cutting the dovetails for the sights, cutting the barrel channel for swamped barrels.
Some places will even supply you the rifle "in the white" which means it is fully assmebled like the factory kits and it only needs to have the wood and metal parts "finished".
These of course cost more. Sometimes a LOT more than the $500 box of parts but for some, it is a good way to go.
As I said, the Custom box of parts will make a truly special High Quality gun if you do your part.
Your part is to provide the initial money and more importantly, to plan on providing a LOT of TIME.
Hurrying one of these will turn $500 into $100 worth of junk parts.
Taking your time and being careful will turn your $500 into a classic heirloom that you'll treasure for the rest of your life and your decendents will marvel at for centuries.
This unadorned rifle took me about 170 hours to do. Yes, I could have done it faster, but I chose to do it right. ::
The ones made by companys like Traditions, Lyman, Pedersoli, etc. These are production guns which have been almost finished except for the stock and perhaps the blueing/browning on the metal parts.
The Lyman Great Plains Rifle Kit is a fine example of a high quality kit of this kind.
To finish one of these, all you really need is a couple of screw drivers, a lot of sandpaper, some stock finish and something to brown/blue the barrel, butt plate, trigger guard etc.
These kits are worthwhile for those without more tools or time.
Those of us who build rifles can finish one of these in less than a weeks worth of evenings.
Folks who are new to this might take 3-4 weeks worth of evenings to finish it.
Then there are the Other Kind of "KIT" (which your question was dealing with).
These are sold by Track of the Wolf, Pecatonica River, Muzzleloading Builders Supply, Jim Chambers, Tennessee Valley Muzzleloaders and a host of others.
The quality of the parts is usually excellent, and the cost of the "kit" is high to Very High.
Names like Siler, L&R, Getz, Colerain, Rice, Davis, Chambers, etc are often heard. These parts are some of the very best in the world and they are all made in the United States.
Stock woods are available in Cherry, Walnut, Curly Maple along with some more exotic woods for those who can afford them.
I use the term KIT loosely here.
These are a collection of parts. Most of the parts are unfinished. Some of the parts are still very rough sand castings.
The locks and set triggers are "almost finished" requireing only blueing/browning but the barrel often doesn't have it's breech plug installed, no dovetails for the sights and has a fairly rough finish on the outside.
The stock wood is rough machined into a close to final shape, but there is wood left to remove everywhere. Often the stock has over 2 inches of extra wood to remove when fitting the butt plate.
You will need to know about filing, drilling, tapping, final inletting for the lock, trigger and butt plate.
Even those places who "pre cut" the mortice for the lock etc leave a little wood which requires final fitting to the part which goes there.
The hard part like cutting the barrel channel and the ramrod hole is done but even this will require hand fitting to install the barrel.
The finished gun may take over 150 hours of work.
Some simple, uncarved, unadorned rifles may take a little less. Other rifles with carving and inlays may take a lot more.
I don't want to frighten off anyone who wants to build their own "Custom" rifle (for that is what it will be), but I don't want someone to spend $500+ only to find that this project is too much for them.
We have a Forum here called Builders Bench. When I asked Claude to establish this Forum it was aimed towards the beginner who has a lot of questions. It still is.
Whether you are building a Factory Kit or a Custom "kit" you will find a lot of help there.
There are some of the finest builders in the country who stop by to share their knowledge with anyone who asks a question.
If you decide to order one of the custom kits, remember, most of them offer special services like installing the breech plug in the barrel, installing the underlugs, cutting the dovetails for the sights, cutting the barrel channel for swamped barrels.
Some places will even supply you the rifle "in the white" which means it is fully assmebled like the factory kits and it only needs to have the wood and metal parts "finished".
These of course cost more. Sometimes a LOT more than the $500 box of parts but for some, it is a good way to go.
As I said, the Custom box of parts will make a truly special High Quality gun if you do your part.
Your part is to provide the initial money and more importantly, to plan on providing a LOT of TIME.
Hurrying one of these will turn $500 into $100 worth of junk parts.
Taking your time and being careful will turn your $500 into a classic heirloom that you'll treasure for the rest of your life and your decendents will marvel at for centuries.
This unadorned rifle took me about 170 hours to do. Yes, I could have done it faster, but I chose to do it right. ::
Hi Wilded,
I finished a TOW Issac Haines a few months ago...these are no where close to putting a lyman together...there is alot of fitting to do, the basic carve is there.. but you still have to inlet the lock,trigger, triggerguard, barrel, tang, underlugs, and any inlays you might want... you drill all the holes, to screw the lock on and the tang bolt.. drill holes for the pins...all the sanding on the metal parts... sand down the stock...you will need quite a few different tools.....
If you decided to do this you need to do alot of reading...the book that helped me the most was.. the art of building the pennylvania longrifle...and dont be in a hurry to get it done so you can shoot it...dont work on it when your stressed or tired, bad things happen ::
I am so glad I made my own gun though...it is one of the most rewarding feelings when you shoot the gun for the first time...and I still feel that way every time I pick it up to shoot...have fun which ever way you go
I finished a TOW Issac Haines a few months ago...these are no where close to putting a lyman together...there is alot of fitting to do, the basic carve is there.. but you still have to inlet the lock,trigger, triggerguard, barrel, tang, underlugs, and any inlays you might want... you drill all the holes, to screw the lock on and the tang bolt.. drill holes for the pins...all the sanding on the metal parts... sand down the stock...you will need quite a few different tools.....
If you decided to do this you need to do alot of reading...the book that helped me the most was.. the art of building the pennylvania longrifle...and dont be in a hurry to get it done so you can shoot it...dont work on it when your stressed or tired, bad things happen ::
I am so glad I made my own gun though...it is one of the most rewarding feelings when you shoot the gun for the first time...and I still feel that way every time I pick it up to shoot...have fun which ever way you go
I am also T Ford, Or Trina :: and yup you have the gun right..you have a good memory lol
I spent a good amount of time at the range today, and was shooting awesome.. after the first few shots I couldnt seem to miss the little black dots...I think I am finally making friends with this gun...we have had a couple of rather ugly trail walks :haha:
I spent a good amount of time at the range today, and was shooting awesome.. after the first few shots I couldnt seem to miss the little black dots...I think I am finally making friends with this gun...we have had a couple of rather ugly trail walks :haha:
wilded
40 Cal.
Thanks guys, you have set me on the correct path for me at this time. ET :master:
akapennypincher
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Think I could turn $700.00 worth of Parts into a $25.00 Pile of Junk :boohoo:
wilded
40 Cal.
After seeing what the kits cost and how many hours it takes some of these builders prices don't look near as bad. :master:
MikeChapin
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I'm convinced that they do it because they love it. They sure won't get rich at it. At $2000 dollars for a moderatly ornate rifle, they are not making much per hour. I know they can do one very much faster and better than I can but that still does not come to a very high hourly rate.
I have built several of the track "kits" over the years and have been pleased with the quality of the parts that I have gotten. I will be starting a full stock Hawkin flinter from track parts as soon as I put the finishing touches on Murphy.
Wilded,
If'n ya haven't been scared off from building your own I'll throw in a little more info. I think the differences between "KITS" have been covered very well and I can't add anything other than to consider the cost of tools if you plan to build one gun only. It is addictive and I would wager more than a few builders started off only going to build one and then just kept building but tool cost is something to consider.
If you are looking at TN/Southern kits also look at Pecatonica and Tip Curtis Frontier Shop. Pecatonica offers 3 different style TN/Southern stocks and Tip has 2 different TN/Southern styles.
Both offer complete collections of parts. I don't think Tip will do any barrel work though?
Hope that helps,
PD
If'n ya haven't been scared off from building your own I'll throw in a little more info. I think the differences between "KITS" have been covered very well and I can't add anything other than to consider the cost of tools if you plan to build one gun only. It is addictive and I would wager more than a few builders started off only going to build one and then just kept building but tool cost is something to consider.
If you are looking at TN/Southern kits also look at Pecatonica and Tip Curtis Frontier Shop. Pecatonica offers 3 different style TN/Southern stocks and Tip has 2 different TN/Southern styles.
Both offer complete collections of parts. I don't think Tip will do any barrel work though?
Hope that helps,
PD
Wilded,
Here's another idea. Tip Curtis seems to like to build guns and always has a large selection of "in the white" guns in his shop. These are quality firearms built from top of the line components and can be bought much cheaper than a full custom rifle.
All they need is to have the metal and wood finished.
Here's another idea. Tip Curtis seems to like to build guns and always has a large selection of "in the white" guns in his shop. These are quality firearms built from top of the line components and can be bought much cheaper than a full custom rifle.
All they need is to have the metal and wood finished.
wilded
40 Cal.
Does Tip have a website? I have been unable to locate one for him. Thanks, ET
wilded
40 Cal.
Thanks, ET
wilded
40 Cal.
What a beautiful rifle, I am sure you are proud of it. ET :redthumb:
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