This may be a stupid question, but Ill ask anyway. I would like a gun that I can use hunting primarily and something thats also PC for the F&I war time period. In my limited research I gathered a rifle would be out of question and smoothbore would be the way to go. Is the loyalist arms early english trade gun a good example or is there something else I should look for. Thanks.
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trade gun
- Thread starter airbear
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Mike Brooks
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Pretty poor example actually. It's about 2.5 lbs over weight. The all round barrel profile is wrong, and the whole gun is too big. If the gun illistrated in the pictures is at half cock, you won't be able to even put a flint in it and close the frizzen. POS in my opinion.
You might look at a Caywood instead..... :shocked2:
You might look at a Caywood instead..... :shocked2:
Guest
I have to comment--I had a chance to handle one of the India imports so-called Tulle fusil last weekend--and was very disappointed in it. The pictures don't do it justice--it is even uglier in person. Very clunky. Some of the India military muskets I have seen were OK, but this was junk. Trade guns as Mike alluded should be light and graceful. Caywoods are, and there are several other sources, especially in kit form. Check out the Davis type C kit.
Mike Brooks
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Oppps, forgot about that one. That would be my choice, hands down if I were looking for a french gun.
Guest
Check out the Jim Chambers site--I believe he has a proper PA fowler kit.
Mike Brooks
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Chances are a german immagrant would have bought a gun once he got here. And then it depends on wether he settles in French or English territory. You're probably looking for an english export grade fowler, or something new englandish if he settles in that area. The gun should reflect a geographic residence.airbear said:
Mike Brooks said:
Actually you two mean the "French fine fusil" kit. Davis doesn't offer a Type C but does offer a Type D which has their Jaeger lock in it as do the Type C and D's that Track and others offer in their precarved stocks with the mortice cut out. I've seen the Fine fusil kit and compared it with an old fusil fin and the two were very close.
Tom Patton
"Chances are a german immagrant would have bought a gun once he got here." That got me to thinking and we know how hard that is... Why?, I'd think it would of been much cheaper at home? Really is a intresting statement when ya think about it, what years are we talking about. Thanks Fred :hatsoff:
Why have not all you learned folks mentioned North Star West? They make a good line of historically accurate smoothbores. Their service is impeccable and very timely. They have a website and Matt will spend the time it takes to answer whatever questions you have.
Now back to my question, why is there a prejudice against the North Star West smoothbores?
Mark Horvat
Eureka, MT
Now back to my question, why is there a prejudice against the North Star West smoothbores?
Mark Horvat
Eureka, MT
I have the North Star West Officers Model, and love it. Shoots better than I can. And their service is great. Damn good guns.
juice jaws
juice jaws
Shelby Skinner
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Kootenai said:
I'd have to agree. Northstar West offers an early English trade gun that I think would be perfect for a F&I period enactor.
My NSW trade gun kit is impressive in its PCness..
Mike Brooks
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Europe wasn't as gun oriented as colonial america. A gun wasn't needed by the common man, as there wasn't anywhere he could hunt, nor were there any threats that he would have to protect himself from. Now, in what we now call Germany, shooting matches were quite popular, but these guns would have been quite expensive for the common man.fw said:
If your portraying a man that has flush financial background he may have brought a gun to the new world, other wise I believe the common immagrant didn't have the means or the need to own a gun in Europe.
I also think very few immagrants understood the vastness of colonial america, nor did they intend to move immediatly to the frontier. I would imagine many of them paid their way across by indenturing them selves and probably spent a decade on the eastern seaboard working off their indenture before getting on with their life.
:yakyak:
Many use such guns and base them on the traits shared by many of the early rifle we know of. in your area a Germanic styled gun might be a better choice, many of the Virginia guns offered have English influence but I would not say it would be wrong, just that it would have some how came from another area. I think Mike Brooks had a list of the traits one should use when building an early rifle, straight wide buttplate, early style lock,minimal relief carving, .54 or larger in cal, a stepped wrist would may be a bad thing to throw in, maybe he will reference his pervious post or chime in here again, it is a "non-documentable" situation because we only have a 1761 gun and some "thought" to be from the 1755-65 era to go by but it is done quite often. I don't know about the transitional Penn/Kentucky I am not really sold on the transitional concept as described by many builders/suppliers I think it is an over simplification of gun evolution to sell guns for earlier time frames. hopefully some others with more knowledge will follow up on the early rifle concept.
Shelby Skinner
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Really hard to say...I just finished reading "Mayflower" by Nathanial Philbrik. Indeed it seems that the people who came over as part of an organized settlement came equipped with firearms. The Pilgrims seemed well supplied with matchlocks both in their initial voyage and subsequent waves.
As the local Indian populations became more hostile and organized it seems that most every man who had a farm had a gun. The history of King Philip's war indicates there were quite a few arms circulating in New England in the mid 17th century--on both sides.
While what you say is generally true of the common man coming from Europe regarding gun ownership. It cannot be denied that people moving out of the small eastern and southern coastal communities found a firearm a necessity.
Indeed both the French and the English found it politically and militarily important to export large numbers of arms to settler and Indian alike. For example Russel Bouchard's research indicates that normal annual production of French trade and colonial destined military arms from Tulle and St. Etienne at between 2,000-3,000 weapons per year from 1691 to 1741. That means the number of French made weapons in the new world ranged between 100,000 and 150,000 before the F&I War. One can assume that English trade guns were at least as numerous and of course early colonists used a fair number of Dutch Arms. Naturally the records are far from complete or accurate and many of those arms ended up in the Caribbean etc.
If you look at some of the demographic history of the United Stated the total european population of the original 13 colonies and other territories in 1680 was estimated at less than 80,000! By 1760 that population had grown to 1.7 mil.
As the local Indian populations became more hostile and organized it seems that most every man who had a farm had a gun. The history of King Philip's war indicates there were quite a few arms circulating in New England in the mid 17th century--on both sides.
While what you say is generally true of the common man coming from Europe regarding gun ownership. It cannot be denied that people moving out of the small eastern and southern coastal communities found a firearm a necessity.
Indeed both the French and the English found it politically and militarily important to export large numbers of arms to settler and Indian alike. For example Russel Bouchard's research indicates that normal annual production of French trade and colonial destined military arms from Tulle and St. Etienne at between 2,000-3,000 weapons per year from 1691 to 1741. That means the number of French made weapons in the new world ranged between 100,000 and 150,000 before the F&I War. One can assume that English trade guns were at least as numerous and of course early colonists used a fair number of Dutch Arms. Naturally the records are far from complete or accurate and many of those arms ended up in the Caribbean etc.
If you look at some of the demographic history of the United Stated the total european population of the original 13 colonies and other territories in 1680 was estimated at less than 80,000! By 1760 that population had grown to 1.7 mil.
Guest
In short response to Kootenai. I have not seen any negative responses to Northstar West and their Northwest trade guns. I own one I had Curley make for me in 1978. I switch between it and my fusil de chasse evey year turkey hunting.(Don't want to show favoritism.} They're very well built, and period correct guns. Don't know why ther're not mentioned more
Bill
A penny saved is merely government oversight!
Bill
A penny saved is merely government oversight!
