Trade silver

[wayne1967]

Been looking around at trade silver. Did alot of it start drying up when the price of silver went up? About 15yrs ago I had a couple of catalogs with a large selections. Mountain State Muzzleloading was one but I don't believe that is the same outfit as it is now. They use to have a large catalog with about everything you could think of. Crazy Crow was another. Seems like now all I see is stamped out stuff, no cast silver.

 

[Many Klatch]

A lot of the trade silver now is being made and sold to reenactors. They want it thinner; more like the original stuff. The good stuff is hand cut from sheet silver.

There are a bunch of vendors that advertise in Smoke and Fire Magazine http://www.smoke-fire.com/ That might be your best place to look.

Many Klatch

 

[wayne1967]

Thanks, I did not know that.

 

[blacksmithman64]

Local friend of mine makes it by hand, real nice stuff,I can PM you his contact info iffen ya want.Price is right too! :wink:

 

[wayne1967]

Just looking around right now. I am like a kid in a candy store getting back into this stuff.

 

[mazo kid]

I have a good friend who makes trade silver by hand, either German Silver, Sterling or even some copper. Just recently I had him make me a Square and Compass and a thumbpiece with the "All seeing Eye" on it in Sterling to be used on my JP Beck rifle being built this year. Give him a look-see, tell him I sent you. Emery www.cousindavesilversmith.com

 

[pichou]

Oh, yeah I've seen his stuff in person. A lot of it is copied directly from museum pieces.

Otter & Son make nice stuff as well.

Chuck Leonard was a big time maker, but he has gone on to meet his maker.

Very little original trade silver was cast. Very little "original" trade silver you see for sale is real.

 

[Ron LaClair]

Chuck Leonard was a big time maker, but he has gone on to meet his maker.

I've got some of Chucks works, He was a good silversmith and cashed in way too young.

This is a ring that Chuck made for me with the molar tooth of a bear I took.

 

[Trailgunner]

Sir; I have been amazed at the items I have seen you post! From the rifles, and that double barreled pistol, hunting pics,etc. and now this. Very nice ML items indeed. I have just started getting past the "buying rifles" stage, and look forward to collecting some fine items myself. Thanks for giving me some ideas.

 

[wayne1967]

That pendant is nice.

 

[omarick1948]

That pendant is nice.

I believe that is a Robert Cruickshank style ear ring?

Rick

 

[ameling]

Before you get too carried away picking up trade silver, you might want to do a little research on the WHO and WHERE of it. Who would have worn it, and Where were they located.

Trade Silver was produced to TRADE to the Indians. So the primary people wearing it were Indians. Wearing of Trade Silver by whites was far far less.

And different regions in North America had different styles or preferences. Plus those changed over the years.

It is all a matter of your personal choice, and wearing trade silver does look ... cool. But there are lots of "questions" associated with it.

Just my humble thoughts to share, and best used in conjunction with your own research.

Mikey - that grumpy ol' German blacksmith out in the Hinterlands

 

[pichou]

Even CL made fantasy jewelry. So does Cousin Dave. A good reference work is essential.

There is one "drowned man" reference to a white wearing trade silver. That would be in Québec.

I don't see it on Métis or whites in the U.S.
John Tanner is the only exception I can think of, but he was living as a Odawa.

Here are a few free reference books
http://books.google.com/books?id=oxQTAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=ornaments+new+york+indians
http://www.archive.org/details/indiantradeornam13vanst

And a general reference work on trade goods. http://books.google.com/books?id=tlZ0AAAAMAAJ&pg=PA61&dq=indian+trade+ornaments

 

[Okwaho]

Before you get too carried away picking up trade silver, you might want to do a little research on the WHO and WHERE of it. Who would have worn it, and Where were they located.

Trade Silver was produced to TRADE to the Indians. So the primary people wearing it were Indians. Wearing of Trade Silver by whites was far far less.



And different regions in North America had different styles or preferences. Plus those changed over the years.

It is all a matter of your personal choice, and wearing trade silver does look ... cool. But there are lots of "questions" associated with it.

Just my humble thoughts to share, and best used in conjunction with your own research.

Mikey - that grumpy ol' German blacksmith out in the Hinterlands

Excellent post Mikey and I would like to add some thoughts of my own.You mentioned the WHO and WHERE and to them I would add WHEN and WHAT.Trade silver as we know it probably made its appearance about the first or second quarter of the 18th century but silver ornaments were not unknown prior to that date and were traded to or acquired by Natives.Two examples from New Engand come to mind. First was the silver recovered from the wreck of the Elizabeth and Mary one of four ships lost returning from the disastrous 1690 expedition mounted by Massachusetts Governor William Phips{Phipps}against Quebec and Montreal.On board that ship were members of the Dorchester Militia at least one of whom was a Native based on the wampum ornamented musket butt stock recovered.I had copies made of two pieces and these pieces could have had either White or Native ownership. I wear them for late 17th or very early 18th century events. The second example is the dangle/pendant{?}taken from the ear of a a dead Abenaki warrior in 1697 by Hannah Dustin when she escaped after the raid on Haverill,Mass.A picture of it is shown by Martha Wilson Hamilton in "Silver in the Fur Trade 1680-1820",P.65.It is questionable as to origin or original use of this piece.I suspect that it started out as a pendant of some type,perhaps on a 17th century drawer pull or was attached to a Catholic sensor used in the Mass.I also have copies of this piece and wear them for 17th century events since the 17th century Native provenance is impeccable.

Then we come to the next issue of WHEN to wear WHAT.Many reenactors wear silver which is either too early or too late.Silver made before your period can generally be worn with impunity and the prime exmples are balls and cones for virtually all time frames.The problem occurs when silver ornaments of a later period is worn too early. Two examples are the heavily pierced large brooches and the large open work wagon wheel ear bobs.Both examples and their variations are post F&I and really are Rev. War but are seen in great numbers by Reenactors Native and White alike doing F&I or even earlier.

I hope this doesn't muddy the waters too much and as always I welcome responsible opposing view points.
Tom Patton

 

[pichou]

Very good points. The "heyday" of trade silver coincided with the large Canadian trade companies, c. 1780-1820.

Numbers found in inventories and trade ledgers also show the relative amounts of each type. Ear "bobs" were purchased in thousands, individual traders traded a dozen pair at a time, but the same traders only had say 5 large pierced brooches per year.

Arm bands and bracelets were much more common than is seen on reenactors.

BTW the Hudson's Bay Company traded very little silver, so anything you see marked with a HB, a beaver, and "Montreal" is as phony as a $3 bill (as my grandpa used to say).

 

[wayne1967]

Great posts. Thank you.

 

[T.C.Albert]

That engraving on page 20 of the Field Museum book (link posted under free books) sure is a bit tongue in cheek...implys quite a sence of humor even on the frontier maybe...
TCA

 

[wayne1967]

Think he had a case of crotch critters?

 

[T.C.Albert]

A missionary trade type cross was found here along the Illinois river, only it was made of cast lead.
It was recovered from a site with a very early 18th century context...1715~1718 or so. It looks to be cast from flat stone molds similar to those used in the New York region, and may be cast by the N/A themselves as a personal adornment?

No typical "trade silver" type ornaments were found associated with the same site, but several brass and copper type adornments were recovered, (Plain bracelets and flat finger rings of copper, and dangle cones of salvaged brass.)along with an assortment of glass trade beads and French armaments and iron wares. It seems the site may predate the advent of "trade silver" in this part of the Great Lakes, but not the desire for it as indicated by the stone cast lead cross???
TCA

 

[Okwaho]

What kind of French armaments?
Tom Patton