This talk by Garrett on the 11bangbang YouTube channel really hit home for me. It's about a lot more than hunting, but I think this is the best forum to post the link.
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traditional or modern?
- Thread starter Cubreac
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64Springer
75 Cal.
A YouTube commenter that comments on other people's comments.
Reason number 4570 why I hate the internet.
Reason number 4570 why I hate the internet.
There goes the point.
ZDC
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Your a commenter commenting on a YouTube commentator's comment about other people's comments
Which this intern makes me a commenter commenting on another commenter commenting on a YouTube commentator's comment about other people's comments
TDM
Cannon
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We’re all on the internet commenting. What you said @64Springer doesn't make any sense.
Old ways or new ways, which is better? Whether tis nobler to stalk the woods for deer with a flintlock like Daniel Boone, or suffer the technical advances of in-line, pellet fueled, scope mounted new fangled contraptions in order to put more meat in the freezer? I'm old fashioned. I heat with wood. We have our own well. I like my wife. Those are all radical notions in this day and age. Let the withering begin.
TDM
Cannon
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I live like that at my camp, unfortunately as my age increases I find it harder to keep everything going, just as those long ago did I would think.
To me it's the challenge of hunting like our for fathers did. I prefer flintlock now but have hunted with in lines.
Percussion guns and about every kind of modern sporting weapon you can think of including archery.
But my favorite is the flintlock I scratch built. JMPO
Percussion guns and about every kind of modern sporting weapon you can think of including archery.
But my favorite is the flintlock I scratch built. JMPO
Patocazador
54 Cal.
I like the idea of being able to hunt and shoot even if components are not commercially available. This would necessitate a flintlock, however, I cheat a bit and use more caplocks than flintlocks. If only shooting paper and gongs is going on then flintlocks are fine. But if I'm hunting deer, I like the surety of an ignition working.
Modern inlines just don't appeal to me just like the plastic and pot metal smokeless powder rifles that are so prevalent nowadays.
Modern inlines just don't appeal to me just like the plastic and pot metal smokeless powder rifles that are so prevalent nowadays.
It’s nice to have deer in the freezer, but we ain’t hunter-gatherers. A trip to the local gun range or gun show or historic event you won’t be seeing too many folks that missed a meal.
We are hunting for sport, using arbitrary rules not designed to fill larders.
Prehistoric hunters needed to make a kill, or starve. Around the world they are known to have ran beards off cliffs then harvester the meat of just a small percentage of the kill. We wouldn’t think of doing that today.
A smoothbore flint lock is a poor gun choice for the woods.
Ball is the worst projectile you can throw
Yet I’m happy to take it in to the woods, knowing I can kill cleanly and humanely….. if I do my part.
And if I can’t get in range, or the mean angel urinates in my touch hole it’s ok. I’ve had a great time in the tall timber and a full belly and warm bed await me at home
We are hunting for sport, using arbitrary rules not designed to fill larders.
Prehistoric hunters needed to make a kill, or starve. Around the world they are known to have ran beards off cliffs then harvester the meat of just a small percentage of the kill. We wouldn’t think of doing that today.
A smoothbore flint lock is a poor gun choice for the woods.
Ball is the worst projectile you can throw
Yet I’m happy to take it in to the woods, knowing I can kill cleanly and humanely….. if I do my part.
And if I can’t get in range, or the mean angel urinates in my touch hole it’s ok. I’ve had a great time in the tall timber and a full belly and warm bed await me at home
longcruise
70 Cal.
This is a perfect example of why I (purely personal preference) rarely watch any YouTube stuff. This video took 16 minutes of my life to listen to his personal description of his upbringing and current lifestyle.
There is very little relevant discussion of the value of maintaining true traditional ml hunting. I agree with what modern inline ml guns have done to our seasons but then he lends credibility to his commentors rant about modern lifestyle devices that have nothing to do with a choice to hunt with traditional style ml guns.
Our detractors arguments don't support the use of mod ml to hunt. They support the purveyors of these guns who could care less about this discussion and only care about the $$$$. So, the conscious and unconscious shills for the use of these IN THE ML SEASONS use the two most common arguments posed against us.
#1 that we are hypocrites who enjoy all the modern conveniences but take to the field with traditional guns. I'm sure there are people living in multi million dollar penthouses who hunt with sidelock guns just as he lives a more primitive life and hunts the same way. This begs the question "SO WHAT"!!
#2, These same purveyors of the inline and there capabilities attempt to smear our ethics and go so far as to suggest that we are using unethical means and that we wound animals that are not recovered due to the inadequacy of our guns. Now, I'm not a big fan of Ted Nugent but he repeats regularly a statement that instantly refutes that argument: "Ethics are in the heart, not in the hand". But, our you tuber while he addresses this, his argument is not to the human factor, but to a discussion of wound channels and rb calibers. Then he further weakens his argument by bringing up bow hunting and wound channels as though the inline crowd has a point on the matter and once again leaves personal judgement and ethics behind. If we are to attack the hunting based on the choice of weapons then all of hunting loses because all of those choices are abused by poor ethical actions.
The best argument that I've been able to Imagine for putting the anti traditionals in their place is the elimination of ml special seasons. The market for those inline guns would dry up immediately. Instead of coming out of the closet for a couple weeks each year, they would stay in the closet forever. Of course, this is just a theoretical scenario that I don't propose and don't advocate actually doing it. It's only, in my opinion, a "stop and think" suggestion to kinda push these folks to maybe just get a glimpse of their own motivations.
So, getting back to my original rant, it irritates me to waste 16 minutes of my life only to realize in the end that I indeed have wasted 16 minutes of my life.
Many probably are thinking the same thing about the time they have wasted reading this post.
There is very little relevant discussion of the value of maintaining true traditional ml hunting. I agree with what modern inline ml guns have done to our seasons but then he lends credibility to his commentors rant about modern lifestyle devices that have nothing to do with a choice to hunt with traditional style ml guns.
Our detractors arguments don't support the use of mod ml to hunt. They support the purveyors of these guns who could care less about this discussion and only care about the $$$$. So, the conscious and unconscious shills for the use of these IN THE ML SEASONS use the two most common arguments posed against us.
#1 that we are hypocrites who enjoy all the modern conveniences but take to the field with traditional guns. I'm sure there are people living in multi million dollar penthouses who hunt with sidelock guns just as he lives a more primitive life and hunts the same way. This begs the question "SO WHAT"!!
#2, These same purveyors of the inline and there capabilities attempt to smear our ethics and go so far as to suggest that we are using unethical means and that we wound animals that are not recovered due to the inadequacy of our guns. Now, I'm not a big fan of Ted Nugent but he repeats regularly a statement that instantly refutes that argument: "Ethics are in the heart, not in the hand". But, our you tuber while he addresses this, his argument is not to the human factor, but to a discussion of wound channels and rb calibers. Then he further weakens his argument by bringing up bow hunting and wound channels as though the inline crowd has a point on the matter and once again leaves personal judgement and ethics behind. If we are to attack the hunting based on the choice of weapons then all of hunting loses because all of those choices are abused by poor ethical actions.
The best argument that I've been able to Imagine for putting the anti traditionals in their place is the elimination of ml special seasons. The market for those inline guns would dry up immediately. Instead of coming out of the closet for a couple weeks each year, they would stay in the closet forever. Of course, this is just a theoretical scenario that I don't propose and don't advocate actually doing it. It's only, in my opinion, a "stop and think" suggestion to kinda push these folks to maybe just get a glimpse of their own motivations.
So, getting back to my original rant, it irritates me to waste 16 minutes of my life only to realize in the end that I indeed have wasted 16 minutes of my life.
Many probably are thinking the same thing about the time they have wasted reading this post.
hanshi
Cannon
hanshi
Cannon
Oooops...The wrong dang photo showed up unannounced.
ZDC
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That's what I was going forYou just gave me a headache.
Funny how traditional muzzleloader shooters are shooting their side locks most of the year either in competitions or just for fun , while the in-lines only come out once a year for a week or two. I never see in-lines out at the ranges except for maybe the week before season, but boy those guys will spin yarn all day about hitting a flea off a dogs back at 200 yards.
I wish we could get a "traditional" season here in Indiana; they asked about it once on a survey several years ago, and that's the last I heard about it. They wanted to make it the first or second week of Jan. of all times, not the best time of year to fill a tag. By the way here in Indiana the bowhunters have all the pull when it comes to seasons.
I wish we could get a "traditional" season here in Indiana; they asked about it once on a survey several years ago, and that's the last I heard about it. They wanted to make it the first or second week of Jan. of all times, not the best time of year to fill a tag. By the way here in Indiana the bowhunters have all the pull when it comes to seasons.
Warning: long winded rant.
Hunting regulations, like most rules imposed by the government, are not based on ethics or managing resources well. They are based on economics and politics. Most ML seasons, I'll wager, are designed to sell tags and licenses, and to show the majority of the population that doesn't hunt that the state F&G bureaucracy is worth the tax dollars spent on it.
I quit fly fishing the local streams about thirty years ago after one season where every single time I went fishing F&G showed up to make sure I was legal, ruining my day. They would roll up with their hand on their gun, check my licenses and then advise me on how to catch more fish after they had just run their boat over the fish I was working.
In my teens I worked on a commercial fishing boat, and we watched F&G destroy the industry by issuing too many licenses and not managing the fish for sustainability. Instead of a few qualified, dedicated fisherman who had been working the same water for decades, and sometimes generations, there were hundreds of boats owned by dentists, lawyers and morticians out for a vacation they could write off on their taxes. You might think it was done on purpose, but then you realize the government isn't that efficient.
As for the 11bangbang channel on YouTube, I have learned a lot from these guys and find their videos very interesting and entertaining. Aspects of their channel that sets them apart are the depth of knowledge, honesty and generosity. If you already know everything and consider what others have to say as a waste of time, well then, okay, and thank you for sharing your knowledge here.
Hunting regulations, like most rules imposed by the government, are not based on ethics or managing resources well. They are based on economics and politics. Most ML seasons, I'll wager, are designed to sell tags and licenses, and to show the majority of the population that doesn't hunt that the state F&G bureaucracy is worth the tax dollars spent on it.
I quit fly fishing the local streams about thirty years ago after one season where every single time I went fishing F&G showed up to make sure I was legal, ruining my day. They would roll up with their hand on their gun, check my licenses and then advise me on how to catch more fish after they had just run their boat over the fish I was working.
In my teens I worked on a commercial fishing boat, and we watched F&G destroy the industry by issuing too many licenses and not managing the fish for sustainability. Instead of a few qualified, dedicated fisherman who had been working the same water for decades, and sometimes generations, there were hundreds of boats owned by dentists, lawyers and morticians out for a vacation they could write off on their taxes. You might think it was done on purpose, but then you realize the government isn't that efficient.
As for the 11bangbang channel on YouTube, I have learned a lot from these guys and find their videos very interesting and entertaining. Aspects of their channel that sets them apart are the depth of knowledge, honesty and generosity. If you already know everything and consider what others have to say as a waste of time, well then, okay, and thank you for sharing your knowledge here.
hanshi
Cannon
I've never liked or owned one of the "modern" MLs but it never bothered that they were out there in droves. I used my sidelocks all seasons including the general rifle season and had more success than many of them with modern MLs or cartridge rifles. When I hunted I had full responsibility for any success or failure. Whatever someone else carried out in the woods it never interested or intimidated me one bit. I didn't know about the others but I was having a great time and a lot of fun with my flintlocks and occasional percussions.
