Traditions Deer Hunter – very misaligned flint and frizzen

[dimitar]

Hello,

Decided to augment my understanding of firearms by going flintlock ”“ for that purpose, I purchased the Traditions Deer Hunter .50 cal. Rifled musket. After installing the flint I noticed that there is a significant misalignment between the frizzen and the flint ”“ see attached photo ”“ is this on purpose? Is it correctable? I can’t believe that such a simple mechanism could be so faulty considering the high price ($300+). Otherwise the action produces sparks like a firestorm.

Appreciate any help.

Dimitar

 

[biliff]

Not exactly sure how to put this but a $300 flintlock isn't exactly on the high end of the price scale. Since yours is sparking well, just slide the flint over in the cock so it lines up with the frizzen, be happy and go have fun shooting it.

 

[Stumpkiller]

Yeah, that's pretty bad.

But, as Bill alludes, $300 don't buy much flintlock. More's the pity.

 

[dimitar]

Thank you gentlemen.

I was curious whether this is a general problem with this product. Will call Traditions.

I do not want to shift the flint sideways because it will be supported asymmetrically and create a rotational force.

Otherwise the $300 is beside the point ”“ kid’s toys for $3 show better parts alignment. If 300 year old flintlocks were aligned right, I’d think that modern engineering can do better than that in aligning two parts and for a lot less”¦.

Very best,

Dimitar

 

[jdkerstetter]

Poor quality photo but it looks like the vent liner might be standing proud of the barrel side flat. If that is the case, closing a frizzen with any play in the pivot would likely kick it out to the side.

And so you know, nobody is trying to diminish the value of the $300 you spent but in the gun world that amount really doesn't buy much in the way of quality.

The proper flintlock mechanism really is not as simple as it seems and for your $300 you will not likely even get a quality American made lock and barrel.

Just the facts. Look at your vent liner. Good Luck and Enjoy, J.D.

 

[jdkerstetter]

....If 300 year old flintlocks were aligned right, I’d think that modern engineering can do better than that in aligning two parts and for a lot less”¦.

It's not the engineering that's the problem, it's the manufacturing methods.

Remember, 300 years ago each lock was made by hand by a man who was highly skilled at his trade and likely apprenticed in it for years. Few guns were owned by citizens then as the cost was very prohibitive. Even 50 years after that and more, a rifle was likely to cost a man the equivilant of a years salary. Adjusted for inflation a quality hand built flintlock rifle should cost as much as a new car today...and were even more necessary.

Enjoy, J.D.

 

[dimitar]

Again, it is not about the $300 per se (I spend a lots more on firearms), but the $300 in relationship to JUST TWO moving parts that have to be aligned. Let me see, I have a piece made in the 1820s by my side and it is perfect. Every black powder cartridge rifle in my collection from the 1870’s and 1880’s has smooth action and perfect fit. I even bought a junk Spanish Jukar .45 flintlock pistol and it is perfect too. You can walk into any gun store today and see every piece below $300, from bolt action to semi-auto rifles and they certainly have a lot more moving parts with lower tolerances. I cannot accept that flintlocks are so special that you need to spend a lot more than that to get decently aligned parts. Anyway, I will talk to Traditions about it.

 

[Trench]

Also take note if there are any gaps between the pan and the bottom of the frizzen. My first flintlock was the same rifle and the primer would all fall out of the pan even with the frizzen closed. The lock eventually broke and I replaced it with an L&R RPL lock.

Lock aside, the rifle shoots well enough.

 

[ebiggs1]

This a sample defect. :td: Because all Traditions flintlocks don't display this misalignment. :hmm: Although I consider all CVA and Traditions guns to be kits no matter where they come from. This is wrong. :shocked2:
If it is a new gun you just purchased, return it immediately. :thumbsup:

I totally agree with you, $300 or $3000, it needs to be right.

 

[jdkerstetter]

Hey, you made it about the money and the history of firearms...$300 and 300 years. I was just putting it in perspective.

Ideally everything would be as it should be upon purchase. Unfortunately that is not the case. If it were L&R Lock Company wouldn't be making money selling a whole line of replacement locks for production muzzleloaders. :shake:

Look at the vent liner and see if it "proud of" or sticking out from the side of the barrel. It appears to be. That will cause the problem you have. With the barrel removed, it can be carefully filed flush.

I agree with ebiggs though....if new, I would return it. That might be problematic if you fired it....unless you bought it from Cabela's, then it will end up in the Bargain Cave. :haha:

Enjoy, J.D.

 

[Billnpatti]

If this was purchased new, you need to return it and get another or get your money back. This is a manufacturing error and they should make it good for you. The store may want you to return it to the manufacturer. If they do, I'd press the issue that you bought it from them and they ought to take care of shipping it to the manufacturer to correct any manufacturing defects. If you have to ship it to the manufacturer for repair, it will cost you somewhere in the neighborhood of $30 to $40 for shipping and insurance. You shouldn't have to pay that. If you bought this gun used, you can take it to a gunsmith and have the cock bent to align properly with the frizzen.

 

[Twisted_1in66]

Hey Dimitar B.,

Another problem with leaving the flint the way it is and firing your gun with it is that it will start to scar your barrel from the edge of the flint hitting it. If you are going to fire it before you fix it, then align the flint with the frizzen so you don't damage the barrel, which is far worse than any "rotational force" that you are concerned about. It is definitely something you want to get fixed before you do much shooting with it.

Twisted_1in66 :thumbsup:

 

[Zonie]

IMO, the slight rotational torque created by offsetting the flint to line up with the frizzen will cause no harm whatsoever.

As long as the jaws of the cock aren't hitting the barrel or the pan, the lock should work fine just like it is.

Whoever first installed the flint in the photo apparently didn't know much about how to do it.

If he/she did know, the flint would have been installed to align with the face of the frizzen, not with the sides of the cock jaws.

 

[outbackzack]

I have a quick suggestion from personal experience with a Traditions Deerhunter. If you have the composite stock model, after cleaning, put the barrel in before the lock. It is easy to over tighten one or both of the lock screws, distorting the composite stock, and causing a twist in all sorts of things you would not expect.

Sometimes it is so subtle that you do not notice until the hammer binds on a shot. It took me days to figure that one out.

Even if it is a wooden stock, try loosening the rear lock screw just a pinch, say an eighth of a turn at a time. I have found that just snug is plenty tight, on both my Deerstalker, and my Charles Daley Hawkens style caplock.

If that does not help, you can try shimming the hammer, using a thin washer between the hammer and lockplate.

 

[dimitar]

Thank you gentlemen, appreciate the constructive input.


Made a note of all points, but responding to just a few :


> Because all Traditions flintlocks don't display this misalignment.

Thank you ”“ this is precisely the information that I wanted to get. Apparently, it is not a feature.

> Also take note if there are any gaps between the pan and the bottom of the frizzen.

Thank you for the suggestion ”“ in that respect this item is Ok.


> Lock aside, the rifle shoots well enough.

On this Traditions product, the hammer spring seems so strong that no matter how broken the flint is, it still kicks a firestorm of sparks and chews the frizzen like soft cheese ”“ a bit off a brute force approach.

I have this Moroccan Altit snaphance that I bought from Tangier last month (the thing that got me started in all this ancient stuff) that has a rather weak spring, but still generates a spark after the long, whip-like snap and is perfectly aligned in all respects.

> IMO, the slight rotational torque created by offsetting the flint to line up with the frizzen will cause no harm whatsoever.

Thinking some more about it, yes, I think you are right. As long as the flint hits / slides down the frizzen uniformly along the width of the flint there will not be any, or very little rotational forces.

> Whoever first installed the flint in the photo apparently didn't know much about how to do it.

That’s me. Point well taken.

> I totally agree with you, $300 or $3000, it needs to be right.

Thank you. Particularly for a relatively simple mechanisms like that.

Very best to you all. Thank you. Will report developments.

Hope the 1795 Pedersoli US Musket that I will play with next has none of these issues.

D.