Tungsten Powder

[HSmithTX]

Sintered actually might work great, you can sinter to frangible or solid depending on what you want to do.

 

[HSmithTX]

Tin will alloy with the lead, similar melting points and the two become one aka alloy. Good casters are always stirring and skimming but not to prevent anything from separating other than the dross.

I don't see barrel wear being a big deal, the patch will take care of that.

 

[64Springer]

The one thing I would never do is make muzzleloader balls out of brass.

The friction would be so great that the rifled barrel would become a smooth bore within a few shots.

Because brass is harder than steel.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

The tungsten is literally in a powdered form. I think that if I stir it and keep it in suspension there is a good chance that the lead would solidify before it settles.

Has anyone dipped their mold in water to get the lead to congeal faster? I can’t imagine it would significantly harden a soft metal like lead…, but I don’t know.

Actually folks have tried dropping the ball directly into cold water, but it doesn't react like iron, the "hardness" difference is negligible.

LD

 

[Loyalist Dave]

It doesn’t sound like anyone has tried improving the ball.

Sure they did. They came up with the conical, to decrease reloading time and improve ballistic coefficient. They came up with the "belted ball" with the same idea but trying to keep the mass and projectile costs down. They recently came up with ITX (iron tungsten matrix) round balls for muzzleloaders, to improve the round ball. ITX Round Ball To allow ML use in areas where lead is banned. Perhaps experiments with those are another starting point?

LD

 

[Nav]

Actually folks have tried dropping the ball directly into cold water, but it doesn't react like iron, the "hardness" difference is negligible.

LD

That would be good thing in terms of solidifying before settling.

 

[olskool]

You’re thinking too hard Mr. Nav. Pure lead has worked since cavemen first starting harvesting dinosaurs with matchlocks.

"harvesting" and all this time i thought we killed animals,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

[user 31257]

"harvesting" and all this time i thought we killed animals,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Dinosaurs are dug like potatoes. Everything else is killed.

 

[DementedMindOfJac]

Well the fist question is, why would you wish to do so? What is the patched round ball going to do better when It's heavier?

Having higher mass means that when fired the round ball will leave the muzzle at a lower muzzle velocity using our present loads. That means that the round ball's already poor ballistics will cause it to drop more as it flies to the target. This will mean we will need to increase our powder loads to compensate for the lower MV. OR, it means having to adjust the sights, but that eventually will mask the target.

Yet, the terminal ballistics on a pure lead round ball are fine.... we shoot the deer, and the deer flop over, or they walk a short distance, and they flop over. IF one wants to shoot farther at game or targets than 150 yards, that pretty much means changing the ballistic coefficient, which means changing the shape of the projectile to something conical. This includes an increase in mass OR, a reduction of caliber, IF one wants to avoid increasing the powder to compensate.

When a hunter thinks there is a penetration problem, adding some antimony will harden up the round ball, and lowering the mass, giving it higher MV at impact, and less deformity allowing it to go deeper. Of course the hunter could go smaller caliber, use a pure lead conical, and get both, better ballistics, and deeper penetration. My .50 shoots a 177 grain ball, and my .40 shoots a 200 grain conical. The .40 with the conical will reach out a tad farther than the .50 with a round ball.

LD

Well, commonly a RB is good out to 40 rods (220yds.) That's because RB has absolutely the worst resistance footprint. The denser ball will carry better, but it will still have the same bearing surface in the barrel. The difference in weight would be so insignificant that it doesn't make enough difference to make a difference. In order for it to be measurable, the bulk of the compound will have to be Tungsten and that would be better achieved with lead-coated Tungsten balls.

Just no. I'm not fooling with that.

 

[olskool]

Dinosaurs are dug like potatoes. Everything else is killed.

you might have a point on that, good one,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

[bptactical]

Adding sildenafil to the lead could produce a much harder alloy.

But you'd need to use your newly cast balls within four hours.

A sure way to prevent being half cocked too…

 

[Nav]

Well, to be fair I don’t harvest the ones I don’t kill. They’re easier to eat that way.

 

[Gordoncourtney]

Very true, but I’m not interested in terminal ballistics or energy. I’m “killing” a paper or steel target. I care about impacts, the ballistic coefficient, the ball flying straight, and the repeatability. Again, the tungsten is not pellets or granuals, it’s powdered. Even so, it has a markedly higher hardness than lead. Barrel wear could certainly be an issue. My 6x47L barrels last about 1,800 rounds, which isn’t much when the standard course of fire is 200 rounds per match. I go through two barrels per season on average, and we treat barrels much like brass. They‘re expendables. I have not read that’s an issue with a properly maintained BP barrel. Perhaps I’m creating an issue here by introducing a harder metal? So, maybe there are more drawbacks than the easily discernible ones.

It doesn’t sound like anyone has tried improving the ball.

I think I should try both a little and a lot. It may be that a high percentage of tungsten would emulsify better in molten lead than a little? When you alloy for hardness how do you keep the tin from pooling at the top of the crucible/mound? Do you stir it right before pouring?

Hello I think it’s great you are thinking outside the box, ignore those who criticise you. By the way you did not mention depleted uranium. Joking aside I am in my 5 day of Colvid feeling a bit better. But why do you need lead, it would be a tedious process but why not tungsten powder and epoxy resins, if only to keep the anti lead crowd happy, you might have something exciting there and the mixture even , Yrs think more on it , well done don’t forget to grease your mould first haha Very well done. I wish you well .

 

[steak]

Adding sildenafil to the lead could produce a much harder alloy.

But you'd need to use your newly cast balls within four hours.

or call in additional critters

 

[user 34300]

Hardness of common metals is attached. Brass is much softer than steel, Guilding metal bullet jackets are a kind of brass alloy. They are obviously safe for barrel steel. Brass is not harder than steel.

As far a heavier balls working better, that is true. Tungsten Super shot is used in waterfowling. The density is much higher than lead. A small payload of smaller shot can take waterfowl at obscene distances. The BC is much higher so it carries further and retains energy. So maybe a 36 cal TSS ball in a ML, pushed at 2600 FPS could give superior performance at extended ranges. The same BC is achieved with bullets, so I do not see the point.

Traditional MLs are about embracing obsolete technology. For me 100 yards is plenty of range. Lots of guys have success with modern bows which have an effective range of half that. For me hunting is about being a skilled hunter, not a technician.

 

[user 34300]

Dup

 

[deerstalkert]

The tungsten is literally in a powdered form. I think that if I stir it and keep it in suspension there is a good chance that the lead would solidify before it settles.

Has anyone dipped their mold in water to get the lead to congeal faster? I can’t imagine it would significantly harden a soft metal like lead…, but I don’t know.

for your health and life DON"T ever try dipping that mold in water. you might live to regret it.
water has no business being close to your mold except for dropping solidified balls,bullets to harden them.
dip that mold in water when it is hot and you will have a miniature hydrogen explosion.
i will be interested if you can overcome the dispersion problem of tungsten in lead.
tungsten melting at 3200+*C is going to make alloying impossible.
interesting problem that i don't have enough time left to work out.
good luck.

 

[bptactical]

or call in additional critters

Only Cougars

 

[deerstalkert]

Only Cougars

Like this? what call for this one?

 

[montanatim]

One possibility I have not seen mentioned is swaging (probably spelled that wrong). It would be expensive but perhaps with Corbon tools the lead powdered and tungsten powdered could be mixed uniformly and swaged?