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TVM, Track of the Wolf kit & Sitting Fox

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Mongo40

40 Cal.
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I've been looking at TVM kits and Track of the Wolf kits and Sitting Fox kits for Souther mtn, poor boys an Tennesse's, Wanting to build myself a 36 or 40 flintlock for plinking, squirrels, turkeys and such, TOTW barrells in the smaller cal. are backordered so no telling when they will have any. Any of you got an experince with these kits, your opinion on them??? I've used the search on here an read most everything you guys have posted that it would find. Price is an issue and Sitting Fox's Tenn. Poor boy Squirrel rifle seems to have the best price, but hows the quality on these parts??? Thanks

I don't understand why kits are so expensive, I could buy a nice rifle or shotgun ready to go for $600 dollars.
 
Mongo40 said:
I've been looking at TVM kits and Track of the Wolf kits and Sitting Fox kits for Souther mtn, poor boys an Tennesse's, Wanting to build myself a 36 or 40 flintlock for plinking, squirrels, turkeys and such, TOTW barrells in the smaller cal. are backordered so no telling when they will have any. Any of you got an experince with these kits, your opinion on them??? I've used the search on here an read most everything you guys have posted that it would find. Price is an issue and Sitting Fox's Tenn. Poor boy Squirrel rifle seems to have the best price, but hows the quality on these parts??? Thanks

I don't understand why kits are so expensive, I could buy a nice rifle or shotgun ready to go for $600 dollars.

Generally the cheaper the kit, the more work your going to have to do.

Now a good quality lock is going to cost you $135.00, depending on brand of barrel, length and what you have done to it, your looking at roughly $175 to $200 for just a straight barrel. You may find one cheaper but not by much. Now the stock, a precarved with barrel channel and ramrod only inletted and a plain grade one will probably cost at least $150 and it only goes up the fancier you want. Then it's time to talk about the hardware, where price depends on where and who you get it from. It's not a cheap hobby.
 
Manufacturers of guns are able to produce a rifle at lower costs because they buy parts or make them in volume. Its always going to cost you more to build a gun from parts you buy, unless you can get all the parts from one source, and negotiate a discount.

You might call Tip Curtis to see what kits he has on hand. He always seems to have barrels in calibers that no one else has.

Tip Curtis Frontier Shop, Cross Plains, Tenn.
Phone 615-654-4445; email: [email protected]

Tip also sells partially completed guns.( As in, "in the White") Depending on how much work he does on a project will depend on what you pay, and how much is left for you to finish. I think it would be worth your time to talk to him. :thumbsup:
 
paulvallandigham said:
Manufacturers of guns are able to produce a rifle at lower costs because they buy parts or make them in volume.

True and many also cut a lot of corners to offer a gun so cheap.
 
All true about the cost of mass produced rifles versus the kits, but we got kind of side tracked on that comment, can anyone shed any light on the actuall kits I asked about, also the Petonica kits, I forgot to mention them. Thanks
Chris
 
I saw a brand new T/C Hawken the other day and they are up to 699.00. In a year you'll be lucky to get half of that out of it. Same thing with the other brand name stuff. Like the other guys said, corners are sometimes cut, questionable hardwood used for the stocks and mass production techniques are used to save on labor. However if you do a kit with quality parts and do a good job, you'll always be able to get your money out of it. Not to mention the fact that you will have something that has a piece of you in it. I think TVM does a lot more of the work for you than the other companies do. Give 'em a call and see what they say.
 
I would take the Pecatonica over the others and TOTW would be Pecatonica I believe.

Troy Roope at Stonewall Creek Outfitters has some good looking pre-carved stocks by Pecatonica with and without lock inlets.
He also has a super large supply of small bore barrels as well as locks. He can set you up with a complete parts set in exactly what you want.
I was over there just the other day and he had a full inventory.
 
I've done the Colonial Fowler kit from Sitting Fox. My first build. It was a lot of work. About 100 hours. It's a good representation of a mid 18th century Dutch fowler. The lock wasn't pre-inlet which wasn't a problem. I did my gun in steel and the parts were a little cheap, but finished out ok. The lock is a Siler, fast and reliable.

Second kit From TOTW. Not exactly a "canned" kit. I looked at what I wanted and ordered it.

Much better quality parts, a whole lot more money! Took about the same amount of hours without any fancy carving. Very nice firearm.

Now I basically have all the guns I need. However the itch to build is to great and am planning another fowler in the near future. It will be a long barrled fowler, 52 1/2" barrel , 28 gauge, and based on a couple of originals I've seen pictures of. I know those parts will have to come from a number of different compamies and the stock will be a blank.

Beware, once you start building you can't go back!
 
you need to do, basically three things:

first, if you don't already have them, get at least Shumway's book and Alexander's book (both available from TotW, and although a pretty stiff initial outlay, they'll more than make up for their cost in the expense of ruined parts, not counting frustration, delay, and bloodstains on your stock- don't ask me how i know :redface: )

second, resign yourself to the sad but simple fact that all things which go bang are not the same. a well made flintlock will cost you much more than a well made, say 30.06. Despite HCI's mantra that 'all guns are bad,' (how do assign a moral character to an inanimate object? - but that's another tirade for another day) a gun is a tool and it's relative utility is greatly perceptual. if all you want to do is put birdshot downrange, and you don't really care what the piece looks like and you don't want to drop a wad of cash, get a used Mossberg 500 from your local pawn shop, go out, and have fun. there's absolutely nothing wrong with this- i've done it. but remember that when your're talking about a muzzleloader, the character of the relationship between you and the tool is much different than, say, the way you feel about your framing hammer, so, since my muzzleloaders are more valuable to me than many of my other tools, i don't hesitate to spend more money on their construction, aquisition or upkeep.

third, accept that you're only gonna 'go round once,' so (as they said in the movie) 'have it the way you want it.' i would urge you to go ahead and spend the extra money, spend the extra time, and in the end have what you really want, rather than a poor compromise.

just one guy's opinion (probably worth what you just paid for it).

once rockbangers fires have you, forever will they dominate your [strike]destiny[/strike] range time.
 
My plan is to buy a Southern Mountain or PoorBoy quality kit with the lock, trigger and barrell already inletted, I'll just save my money up, I figured Sitting Fox used the same metal parts kits that everyone else sells. Guess not, anyway till I decide on a kit what Shumway and Alexander book are you talking about as there are several by them??? Thanks
 
Mongo, Talk to all three builders as to what you want as far as parts, then compare. Jim Chambers only uses parts he believes in, doesn't lower his quality. The other builders will provide you with the same parts that Jim will, but at an extra cost. Compare apples to apples, then decide. I think you will find Jims kits are very competitive considering the parts he uses.
 
I built the Sitting Fox Boys rifle for my son. The lock is a small Queen Ann's pistol lock or you can choose a small Siler both by Chambers. The stock is plain maple and was fully inlet for the barrel. The barrel is a 33" CVA barrel that Ray has turned octagon to round. The brass is about the same quality as a Dunlap kit I built.

In my opinion Ray gets the cost savings from the stock and the barrel and I believe that to be the case with his other kits.

Considering that you want to build a poor boy, if the barrel meets your requirements then I'd give Sitting Fox close consideration. Ray will meet your needs.

Salt
 
the books they are referring to are -1) Recreating the American Longrifle by Shumway,Buchelle and Alexander,2) The Gunsmith of Grenville County by Peter Alexander.
Both books are good and will do a great job of explaining how to build a gun from scratch if you like.
 
DEADDAWG said:
Mongo, Jim Chambers only uses parts he believes in, doesn't lower his quality. The other builders will provide you with the same parts that Jim will, but at an extra cost. Compare apples to apples, then decide. I think you will find Jims kits are very competitive considering the parts he uses.

Jim has nice parts sets. But he doesn't offer a Southern or a Tenn. rifle, so he is out of the running on this one.

:wink:
 
I just ordered "Recreating the American Longrifle" and got a subscription to Muzzleloader, Cant find "Gunsmith of Grenville County" its out of print.
 
I purchased a poor boy in the white from sitting fox about a year ago. If you call Ray he will work with you on what you want. I was really pleased with rifle.
 
ray of sitting fox gets his stuff from tvm.the box had tvm as its return address..when i called ray about my problematic lock he told me to call tvm..i would cut out the middle man and order form tvm...check out their southern poor boy kit...just my 2 cents...
 
I got my Gunsmith of Grenville County this past summer from TotW, can't imagine it being out of print.In all honesty, you should do fine with just the recreating the longrifle book.It is quite sufficient.I found the GoGC to be very informative and educational,he goes into very indepth explanation of methods and tech.The GoGC is not much more than a collection of all his muzzleloader magazine articles titled "The Gunsmith of Grenville County".
 
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