Two no fires while hunting

[stephenprops1]

One of the best pieces of helpful information I have gleaned from this site is to store muzzle down after cleaning. I also blow down the bore before the first loading and listening for air escaping the vent or nipple.

I usually snap at least one cap before loading my guns initially. If the situation prevents me from snapping a cap, I run a patch down the bore. Like you, I listen for the air gushing out of the nipple. If I hear the air, I am assured the vent and nipple is clear.

 

[SDSmlf]

My son and I just returned from a 3 day deer hunt/camping trip. Prior to going, we spent several days at the gun range. He was shooting Pyrodex, myself black powder from 2 separate containers, one a few years older than the other. We had no problems with either powder or Pyrodex igniting. After the range we cleaned both guns in similar fashion, both getting a final, light swab of Bore Butter.

in camp, I realized I had forgotten my sons pyro, so he loaded 70 grains of the older Goex FFG black powder (which performed perfectly at the range) topped with a Great Plains conical bullet. He used a new percussion cap, bought the week before and tested at the range.

I loaded my rifle (we both were shooting .50 caliber Hawken style ) with 70 grains of black powder from the newer container (it, too, had performed flawlessly at the range), loaded the same bullet as my son and used the same brand cap from the same container. Every component we used we had range tested the week before and every component worked perfectly.

weather during our hunt dropped down to 13 degrees and on Sunday it snowed lightly all day. We did not have muzzle condemns on the guns, nor have I ever used one. However, at the close of hunting on the second day, we went to fire the guns to unload then, neither charge ignited, only the cap snapped. So, we are trying to figure out what went wrong. Both batches of black powder has been tested at the range, the can of caps had been tested, we loaded the same bullet, cleaned the guns before with the same products. I’ve been hunting with muzzleloader for about 50 years, not a newbie. But I don’t see why neither rifle fired. Any advice, ideas or theories? thank you.

Sounds like a bit of bad luck. I would blame issues on your cleaning methods and how you protect your load. Not a powder or cap issue, though just one person’s opinion.

When in hunting camp I use HOT water. It removes black powder fouling and dries the bore. Not concerned about possibility of flash rust. Need a dry clean bore ready to shoot when the trigger is pulled. Barrels can be cleaned of any flash rust, refreshed, rebored or replaced after the hunt. Ditch the Bore Butter for your gun’s bore. Maybe save it for chapped lips or dry skin on your hands. You may never get that shot over that you missed because of moisture in the breech or a Bore Butter blockage in your fire channel. The only misfire I ever had was because of how I cleaned a gun while hunting, it was after using tepid water (because that’s what experts said to use) the night before to clean the gun. Never again. Have hunted in multiple states in the lower 48, Alaska and Africa. If you’re serious about hunting, your gun is a tool, not a show piece. Keep it functional while in the field. If flash rust is a problem that concerns you, deal with it when you get home. A patch or two will likely wipe it away. Have a misfire while hunting and you may never get a similar opportunity again. You are fortunate your cleaning/rust protection methods didn’t cost you a chance at deer of a lifetime.

 

[morehops52]

TDM hit it first. If you fire off a cap on an empty barrel and have it pointed close to grass or a leaf you will see it move. If it doesn't then you have a blocked channel somewhere. I have hunted in rain and snow with a caplock and it has never failed to fire at the end of the day or even two. Too add an extra level of reliability to my rifle I will sometimes remove the nipple and put a charge of 4f down into the channel , put the nipple back on and charge it too. Has to be for weather that I'd rather not be out it though.

 

[TDM]

I rarely shoot percussion long guns anymore but back when I did and hunted with them I’d use a plunger style nipple primer filled with 3F. Of course after I knew the nipple was clear. I still have it, just not sure where it is.

 

[SDSmlf]

TDM hit it first. If you fire off a cap on an empty barrel and have it pointed close to grass or a leaf you will see it move. If it doesn't then you have a blocked channel somewhere. I have hunted in rain and snow with a caplock and it has never failed to fire at the end of the day or even two. Too add an extra level of reliability to my rifle I will sometimes remove the nipple and put a charge of 4f down into the channel , put the nipple back on and charge it too. Has to be for weather that I'd rather not be out it though.

And how do you suggest doing the same with a flintlock? Any black powder residue will suck up any moisture in the air.

 

[deerstalkert]

at 13 degrees, anything from water to snail spit will freeze solid. and 1 drop of water will expand enough when frozen to block any fire channel. been there done that.

 

[morehops52]

And how do you suggest doing the same with a flintlock? Any black powder residue will suck up any moisture in the air.

I never suggested it for flintlocks. The OP's post noted cap locks not flinters. I have read here that 4f has no coating on it while coarser powder has a water resistant coating. Don't know if it's true but others mentioned using 3f in the pan in wet weather. Also changing powder in pan often. hope this helps.

 

[SDSmlf]

I never suggested it for flintlocks. The OP's post noted cap locks not flinters. I have read here that 4f has no coating on it while coarser powder has a water resistant coating. Don't know if it's true but others mentioned using 3f in the pan in wet weather. Also changing powder in pan often. hope this helps.

My mistake and I apologize. I’m just used to hearing folks say to pop cap (percussion) or fouling load (flint) to clear out any oil or moisture. I have never found either necessary on a properly cleaned gun, and if one believes either is necessary they need to look at their cleaning and lubricating procedure. And for what it is worth, I’ve seen percussion cap residue after firing on an empty bore clog up a nipple/fire channel. If you are lucky it won’t happen at that moment when everything else is ‘perfect’.

 

[pat thompson]

My son and I just returned from a 3 day deer hunt/camping trip. Prior to going, we spent several days at the gun range. He was shooting Pyrodex, myself black powder from 2 separate containers, one a few years older than the other. We had no problems with either powder or Pyrodex igniting. After the range we cleaned both guns in similar fashion, both getting a final, light swab of Bore Butter.

in camp, I realized I had forgotten my sons pyro, so he loaded 70 grains of the older Goex FFG black powder (which performed perfectly at the range) topped with a Great Plains conical bullet. He used a new percussion cap, bought the week before and tested at the range.

I loaded my rifle (we both were shooting .50 caliber Hawken style ) with 70 grains of black powder from the newer container (it, too, had performed flawlessly at the range), loaded the same bullet as my son and used the same brand cap from the same container. Every component we used we had range tested the week before and every component worked perfectly.

weather during our hunt dropped down to 13 degrees and on Sunday it snowed lightly all day. We did not have muzzle condemns on the guns, nor have I ever used one. However, at the close of hunting on the second day, we went to fire the guns to unload then, neither charge ignited, only the cap snapped. So, we are trying to figure out what went wrong. Both batches of black powder has been tested at the range, the can of caps had been tested, we loaded the same bullet, cleaned the guns before with the same products. I’ve been hunting with muzzleloader for about 50 years, not a newbie. But I don’t see why neither rifle fired. Any advice, ideas or theories? thank you.

On my third year with trying a flintlock I ended up with getting my best buck to date, in a steady rain/drizzle. Trick was using electrical tape overlapping to seal the muzzle, plus dumping the pan of the 4F every ten minutes or so, wiping the pan and frizzen dry with absorbent pieces of toilet paper that I kept dry under my coat before reprising. I liberally flicked away and replaced #11 caps in a drizzle to get my first deer. Same principle in each style of ignition. I hope that helps.

 

[pat thompson]

On my third year with trying a flintlock I ended up with getting my best buck to date, in a steady rain/drizzle. Trick was using electrical tape overlapping to seal the muzzle, plus dumping the pan of the 4F every ten minutes or so, wiping the pan and frizzen dry with absorbent pieces of toilet paper that I kept dry under my coat before reprising. I liberally flicked away and replaced #11 caps in a drizzle to get my first deer. Same principle in each style of ignition. I hope that helps.

*repriming

 

[Wisconsin Relic]

*repriming

The electrical tape over the muzzle seems like a good idea, but ignition wasn’t the issue. The issue was no powder in the bolsters of either rifle. We are not exactly sure of the reason for that issue, but suspect it was due to our use of Bore Butter. We will NOT be using that gunk anymore.

 

[Sam squanch]

It’s good on toast, if that helps.

 

[Wisconsin Relic]

It’s good on toast, if that helps.

Hmmmmm, toast, eh? It does sort of resemble that whipped honey stuff. Maybe you’re on to something.

 

[Sam squanch]

More like I’m ON something……

 

[M. De Land]

My son and I just returned from a 3 day deer hunt/camping trip. Prior to going, we spent several days at the gun range. He was shooting Pyrodex, myself black powder from 2 separate containers, one a few years older than the other. We had no problems with either powder or Pyrodex igniting. After the range we cleaned both guns in similar fashion, both getting a final, light swab of Bore Butter.

in camp, I realized I had forgotten my sons pyro, so he loaded 70 grains of the older Goex FFG black powder (which performed perfectly at the range) topped with a Great Plains conical bullet. He used a new percussion cap, bought the week before and tested at the range.

I loaded my rifle (we both were shooting .50 caliber Hawken style ) with 70 grains of black powder from the newer container (it, too, had performed flawlessly at the range), loaded the same bullet as my son and used the same brand cap from the same container. Every component we used we had range tested the week before and every component worked perfectly.

weather during our hunt dropped down to 13 degrees and on Sunday it snowed lightly all day. We did not have muzzle condemns on the guns, nor have I ever used one. However, at the close of hunting on the second day, we went to fire the guns to unload then, neither charge ignited, only the cap snapped. So, we are trying to figure out what went wrong. Both batches of black powder has been tested at the range, the can of caps had been tested, we loaded the same bullet, cleaned the guns before with the same products. I’ve been hunting with muzzleloader for about 50 years, not a newbie. But I don’t see why neither rifle fired. Any advice, ideas or theories? thank you.

I think the bore butter left in the breech fouled the charge. One should fire a cap to clear the fire channel before loading in the hunting camp.

 

[Rob M.]

My son and I just returned from a 3 day deer hunt/camping trip. Prior to going, we spent several days at the gun range. He was shooting Pyrodex, myself black powder from 2 separate containers, one a few years older than the other. We had no problems with either powder or Pyrodex igniting. After the range we cleaned both guns in similar fashion, both getting a final, light swab of Bore Butter.

in camp, I realized I had forgotten my sons pyro, so he loaded 70 grains of the older Goex FFG black powder (which performed perfectly at the range) topped with a Great Plains conical bullet. He used a new percussion cap, bought the week before and tested at the range.

I loaded my rifle (we both were shooting .50 caliber Hawken style ) with 70 grains of black powder from the newer container (it, too, had performed flawlessly at the range), loaded the same bullet as my son and used the same brand cap from the same container. Every component we used we had range tested the week before and every component worked perfectly.

weather during our hunt dropped down to 13 degrees and on Sunday it snowed lightly all day. We did not have muzzle condemns on the guns, nor have I ever used one. However, at the close of hunting on the second day, we went to fire the guns to unload then, neither charge ignited, only the cap snapped. So, we are trying to figure out what went wrong. Both batches of black powder has been tested at the range, the can of caps had been tested, we loaded the same bullet, cleaned the guns before with the same products. I’ve been hunting with muzzleloader for about 50 years, not a newbie. But I don’t see why neither rifle fired. Any advice, ideas or theories? thank you.

Did you fire them or at least swab and snap a couple caps through them before you loaded them ?

 

[SDSmlf]

We are not exactly sure of the reason for that issue, but suspect it was due to our use of Bore Butter. We will NOT be using that gunk anymore.

Maybe try a few more times and hope for better results? All the Bore Butter advocates for rust protection can’t be wrong…..

Or maybe think outside of the box and try a clean dry bore?

 

[Wisconsin Relic]

No we will not be using bore butter ever again. What others do is up them. But that product jeopardized both our hunts. And, I don’t need to be insulted by sarcastic remarks. We cleaned and loaded our guns exactly as I’ve been doing for 50+ years. The only difference this year was the bore butter. Previous years I’ve never had that kind of problem. I’ve never had a fouled powder charge or powder that failed to flow into the drum until bore butter. I know how to clean and load a muzzleloader. I was asking for sincere suggestions. Thanks to those who offered them.

 

[SDSmlf]

I don’t need to be insulted by sarcastic remarks.

All the Bore Butter advocates for rust protection can’t be wrong

If my above comment insulted you, I’m sorry you took it that way, but it wasn’t directed at you. It was directed at those who will tell us all the wonderful things Bore Butter will do for the muzzleloader hunters and their guns. Honestly wonder how many of them actually take to woods with their muzzleloaders and go hunting?

 

[waksupi]

Exactly. We shoot year round, and you couldn't force an experienced shooter to ever use bore butter.