Uhmmmm...a new frontier to explore??

[roundball]

Goex Cartridge powder is explained in this reply from Goex to a shooter:

"...Dear Mr. G, Thank you for your inquiry. Cartridge grade powder is a grain size that is between 2f and 3f in size. It is held to a tighter specification for grain size than the other powders, and receives an additional coating of graphite in the manufacturing process..."

I wonder what pros & cons there might be in using a 2.5F, heavily graphite coated Goex powder with mofre consistently sized kernels in a Flintlock or caplock..."theoretically", better shot-to-shot burn rate / consistency, slightly tighter groups, etc...maybe an eyelash more fouling than 2F...maybe an eyelash less pressure jump and less recoil...

Anybody run any good tests using Goex "2.5F" Cartridge grade powder?

Anybody know how its price compares to a regular can of Goex 2F or 3F?

 

[shortstring]

A few years back I used it exclusively shootin chunk. Got good accuracy out of it. In recent years we've replaced it with 1 1/2f Swiss. Can't picture going back.

Paul

 

[paulvallandigham]

We didn't try to set up a real test, but My brother and I sifted FFg Goex to get rid of the " fines " , and then he shot it in his rifle and also shot the Cartridge Grade Goex powder, to see how they compared. He could feel and see no difference in the powder residue. He could see no real difference in velocities over his Chronograph, other than what you normally expect going from one lot to another, and the SDVs were similar.

He was expecting much more from the more expensive Cartridge Grade Goex, and was surprised that simply sifting his standard Goex FFg he could get similar results. Being almost as Cheap as I am, he hasn't bought any more cartridge Grade Goex. What he has left is saved to try in his .45-90 cartridges. When he has finished that, he plans to screen some of his FFFg powder and use it.

 

[hepburn4590]

I shoot a good deal of 'Cartridge' powder in both muzzleloaders and cartridge guns. It works great in my ML's .50cal and bigger. I don't like it in my rifles 45cal. and smaller. Too trashy. I have found that SD's and MV's vary from lot to lot with 'Cartridge', more so than 2f or 3f. In the late '90s Goex had a problem with powder density. It took about 10% more powder to obtain the same MV's. SD's sucked. They have since fixed that problem and it's good powder. You just have to watch the lot numbers to maintain consistant peformance. The only advantage over 2f or 3f would be the graphite coating in a compressed load.

 

[MikeC]

Anybody know how its price compares to a regular can of Goex 2F or 3F?

Looked on TOTW and they have it priced about a buck more per can then the regular stuff so cost shouldn't be an issue.

 

[mazo kid]

I bought a few #s of Cartridge and Swiss in my last black powder order. I haven't tried either one yet as I'm still emptying my 2fg and 3fg Goex I have started. Sounds like maybe the Cartridge isn't all that much more useful over 2f in my cartridge guns, which is primarily why I bought. I'm hoping it will work good in my flinters too.

 

[renovato]

I haven't tried the cartridge grade powder, but like Paul, I have tried screening Goex. I got more consistent groups. It might be worth the extra expense if you're after the best groups. Though I think Swiss would still probably outgroup it. Might make for a nice side by side experiment some day.

 

[roundball]

OK thanks...appears to be nothing to get excited about...probably explains why it hasn't already come to the surface and been discussed openly.

I've tried Goex 2F and 3F in three smoothbore gauges and six rifle calibers...as far as I'm concerned Goex 3F is the best price / performance BP of them all...if it was the only BP left on the planet I'd still be a happy camper

 

[worker11811]

I have tried screening Goex. I got more consistent groups. It might be worth the extra expense if you're after the best groups.

Don't forget, if you're screening regular Goex there is a hidden "cost." If you take a pound of powder and, in effect, throw away some of it you increase your cost per pound.

One pound of powder cost you $20.00
(Rounding off price to make the math easier.)

You screen out 10% of your powder as "fines." There is only 0.9 pounds of powder left.

Where powder cost you $1.25 per ounce before, it now cost $1.39.

Original cost = $20.00
$20 / 16 oz. per lb. = $1.25.

Screening out 10%.
16 oz. per lb. * 0.9 = 14.4 oz. left.

New cost = $20.00 / 14.4 oz. = $1.388 (Round to $1.39)

If cartridge grade powder cost $1.00 more per pound that comes out to $1.31 per ounce.
$21.00 / 16 oz. per lb. = $1.31.

Unless screening your own powder gives you 8¢ per pound's worth of benefit it's cheaper to just buy the higher grade of powder.

You guys said that screening your own powder produces similar results to buying a higher grade of powder so the only benefit to screening powder is that you might be able to improve the performance of powder that you already bought.

Another question comes up, too...
What are you going to do with the powder you screened out? Can you use it for pan powder? Can you use it in another gun? The answer to these questions will change the cost equations.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Who says you " Throw away the powder skimmed " off from screening? My brother has screens for FFg and for FFFg powders. We screen the FFg first. The fines are then screened through the FFFg wire mesh. The fines go into a can for priming powder. The FFFg goes into a can for FFFg powder, and the remaining FFg stays in the can for FFg. NOTHING IS THROWN OUT! ( Our ancestors on both sides of the family are too " Frugal" to let us even think of such a thing! )

I use the FFFFg powder for priming the flintlocks. I use the FFFg in my percussion shotgun. I used the FFg in my flintlock fowler, and rifle. Since I periodically have to buy all three powders( less so with priming powder) I am saving money.

The good news is that the last can of GOEX FFg we screened gave us less than an ounce of fines, leaving us with more than 15 oz. of FFg powder. Apparently the new factory in Louisianna also has new equipment and they are screening the products better at the source. Compare that to a can we " inherited" from Dad that he bought more than 25 years ago, which gave us about 4 ounces of fines, which worked out to about 3 oz. of FFFg and 1 oz. of FFFFg powders.

The real benefit from Screening that we have both noticed is more uniform burning of the powder in the barrel, so that the residue left is no more, and not larger in size than we get shooting FFFg powder, when it comes to cleaning the barrel between shots. When you clean between every shot, and are checking your patches to see how dry or damp the crud is, you notice small things that this. :hmm: :hatsoff:

 

[renovato]

Like Paul, my screenings go into FF, FFF and priming cans, so nothing is wasted. What is wasted though, is the time it takes to screen. Next powder order, I might try a couple cans of the cartridge grade just to see how it compares. I liked the consistency of screened powder, but for that small amount of gain, it wasn't worth the expendature of effort. Would be worth an extra buck or two per can though.

 

[paulvallandigham]

I do my screening while watching TV. Its basically mindless work, so I don't even resent the effort it takes. My brother has one of the drums from Graf& sons, but I am making up screens using screening wire purchased from McMasters, Inc., wired to some inexpensive hoops from the hobby shop used for needle point work. I figure I can shake the screen over a large bucket like I would pan for gold, with no more effort.

 

[worker11811]

I did say that having another use for the screened powder would change the cost equation.

Don't forget that your time is worth money. Figure in how much you think it's worth to, in essence, pay somebody to screen your powder for you.

But, if you like doing it and you have time to spare, there's no reason why you can't. I'm just saying that it is worth your time to spend two minutes doing a cost-benefit analysis on the situation.

I don't have another gun to use the screened powder in. My gun eats FFg. My stepdad's gun eats FFg and everybody else I know who shoots muzzle loaders uses FFg or Pyrodex.

Still... You guys got me thinking...
Do you think it would be worth my time to take a can of FFg and screen it so I could have some pan powder?

It would be really neat if you could screen a can of Goex and get enough fines to use as pan powder for the whole rest of the pound.

It's not strictly a ploy to save a few bucks but a way to simplify your powder inventory. You really use so little of it in the pan. Why buy two grades? It sure would be nice to only have one grade of powder on hand.

 

[paulvallandigham]

The only percussion gun I now own is my DB shotgun. The other two guns are rock locks! If my back would let me shoot more, I might go through more powder than I have in years. And percussion caps. And flints. But I have plenty of friends who can use the extra FFFg powder I screen from my FFg powder. And, I can use it as priming powder, too.

It took more time to set up the drum and screens for my brothers tumbler set-up, than it did to screen a pound of powder. I think my plan is actually going to involve a lot less time, because there will be no real set-up time. I can store the two sieves and a bucket in my garage, or under a sink, for that matter, and screen 5 cans of powder in less than a half hour. That will keep me shooting, on my best years, for at least a year.

 

[renovato]

I have to agree that in my case at least, it's not worth the time to screen. I'd rather spend a little more for more consistent powder. Unlike Paul, my screens are small and it takes me a lot of time to screen a few pounds.

Plus I always seem to make a mess, so screening while I watch the tube is out, lest my lady kill me the first time one of our smoking friends sets off some fines that gets into the carpet or couch! :rotf:

You don't really need to use a seperate grade of powder for priming anyway. It took a lot of convincing, but these folks are right. Priming from the horn works just fine, whether it's FFG or FFFG. I've only screened a couple pounds of FF. I got a bit of FFF and a pinch of fines. The real benefit of screening is to get the FFF out. The powder burns more consistently that way.

Screening FFF has worked out good though. I get a bit of FF and enough fines to prime with. I only have one gun that likes FF, so the amount I get from screening is plenty. I only have one flinter too, so the fines are more than enough for my priming needs.