• Friends, our 2nd Amendment rights are always under attack and the NRA has been a constant for decades in helping fight that fight.

    We have partnered with the NRA to offer you a discount on membership and Muzzleloading Forum gets a small percentage too of each membership, so you are supporting both the NRA and us.

    Use this link to sign up please; https://membership.nra.org/recruiters/join/XR045103

Underhammer alert! Doctor Gorning's design

the hawken shop
Shop deals on ebay
L & R
shop deals on amazon
Muzzleloading Forum

Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
BillinOregon

BillinOregon

Cannon
MLF Supporter
Joined
Aug 4, 2004
Messages
8,756
Reaction score
3,824
Location
The Land of Enchantment
I am giving fair warning, as apparently underhammers can be deeply upsetting to certain very sensitive persons. (Taking a loving poke here at the AmericanLongrifles Association forum 😄 ).
Anyway, reading the posts in the handgun and antique firearms forums about the ingenious Cooper underhammer pistol reminded me of the lock designed by Dr. Raymond Gorning and illustrated and described on pages 290-92 of Ned Roberts's indispensable study, "The Muzzle-loading Cap Lock Rifle." (Stackpole, fifth printing, 1958)
I wonder if anyone out there has built a rifle on the Gorning action. It has been years since I wandered around Roger Renner's blog, so it might be mentioned there.
 

Attachments

  • image_67168513.jpeg
    image_67168513.jpeg
    1.5 MB
  • image_16860929 (1).jpeg
    image_16860929 (1).jpeg
    2.3 MB
  • image_16854785 (3).jpeg
    image_16854785 (3).jpeg
    1.7 MB
Interesting, thanks for posting. It looks to me to be a better design - especially the detail about having a forearm and a safety to carry at full ****. Can't answer your question, though, sorry, but I'd sure like to see pics of one if it's out there.
 
I thought I recall a picture of a complete rifle in the Robert's book.

It was indeed designed and built for competitive target shooting but it would seem to be a good field design.
 
BillinOregon said:
Sam, for some reason the illustration omits the safety described in the text. Reading Ned's description made me ponder once again upon the advantages of the mule-ear or side-slapper locks as well. I think it was Dale Storey who built very good examples of this lock some years back.
Click to expand...

I saw my first mule ear lock at a my very first muzzleloader shoot. I thought it was a brilliant idea and resolved to build one. I am part way there. Had I seen an underhammer first I would have thought brilliant, but not as ”pretty”.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_4939.jpeg
    IMG_4939.jpeg
    1.8 MB
This thread inspired me to go out in the shop on a crummy winter day and start making something! I found a piece of A2 tool steel 50mm thick and rough sawed out the shape of the hammer for this underhammer rifle.
I have that book too, and read the article. I don't know if I would care to see the picture of Pompey's head with a bullet hole, but I would like to see a picture of the camera they used to take it in 1777!
 
Okay, so I was mistaken. I do have photos of the Dr. Gorning underhammer and it is not nice looking! I have a file titled "Coil Spring Underhammers" that I located it (I have a lot of photos of muzzle loaders & 'other' types of weapons).

bench02.jpg
bench06.jpg

bench07.jpg
bench10.jpg

bench09.jpg
bench1 Gorning underhammer plan.jpg

I don't know what to say except that it is a close copy of the Gorning UH & a lot of work went into it.

later, Mike
 
Last edited:
Daytime: Search me. If you dare mention them on that other forum, you will have your comment deleted and a stern warning from the mods that "We don't discuss underhammers." No other reason given.
I had my wrists slapped for mentioning a Billinghurst target rifle and a fine gentleman from this forum who made and shot them.
 
BillinOregon said:
Daytime: Search me. If you dare mention them on that other forum, you will have your comment deleted and a stern warning from the mods that "We don't discuss underhammers." No other reason given.
I had my wrists slapped for mentioning a Billinghurst target rifle and a fine gentleman from this forum who made and shot them.
Click to expand...
Very interesting. I think it is a very clever design. I’ll get one someday.

Anthony
 
BillinOregon said:
I am giving fair warning, as apparently underhammers can be deeply upsetting to certain very sensitive persons. (Taking a loving poke here at the AmericanLongrifles Association forum 😄 ).
Anyway, reading the posts in the handgun and antique firearms forums about the ingenious Cooper underhammer pistol reminded me of the lock designed by Dr. Raymond Gorning and illustrated and described on pages 290-92 of Ned Roberts's indispensable study, "The Muzzle-loading Cap Lock Rifle." (Stackpole, fifth printing, 1958)
I wonder if anyone out there has built a rifle on the Gorning action. It has been years since I wandered around Roger Renner's blog, so it might be mentioned there.
Click to expand...
I like it and it looks simple to build from scratch for machinist types . I sure like my H&A underhammer gun in .45 cal. I have another action in the white waiting to be made into a rifle as well.
They are really good for fast/sure ignition in bench guns but leave something to be desired for off hand use without a custom flash guard installed. I remember one match years ago setting my carhardt jacket sleeve on fire and burning my forearms more than once in summer shoots.
The mules ear is far more friendly for off hand shooting.
I came up with this design of flash guard after many years of being burned and it does allow sleeveless shooting without flash burn. It is attached by the nipple flange and contoured to the three bottom flats of the barrel so it can't rotate. It not only protects the shooter but also limits the wood forearm exposure to flash burn.
I had to buy an extended nipple from TOTW and then mill it to proper length so as to both secure the flash guard and flush out with the bore interior. This to eliminate brushes to jamb up when cleaning.
Note the hammer spur has been removed to speed up lock time. I **** it with the tip of a deer antler.
The guard directs the flash down and rearward clearing the shooters bare forearm from flash burn.
I don't know but one might feel some flash burn on a bare belly not covered by a shirt but I've never felt anything with normal shirts on.
Note the trigger extension I welded on to move it rearward to the back of the bow/main spring so I didn't have to reach for it.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_2132.JPG
    IMG_2132.JPG
    133.4 KB
  • IMG_2134.JPG
    IMG_2134.JPG
    146.8 KB
Last edited:
Daytime Smoker said:
So, my ignorance here. Why would Underhammer rifles be upsetting? Not trying to kick a hornets nest or anything. I myself have wanted one for a while.

Anthony
Click to expand...
They are not "upsetting". The American Long Rifle Association (ALR) is just that. And, like the ML forum, they draw lines in the sand to maintain their declared focus. In that respect, the ALR is well moderated and an excellent site (as is this forum) for the exchange of information.

Many ALR members are also members here and I at least think they would agree with me.
 
Longcruise, I said it was a "loving poke" because I appreciate and have been registered on the ALR forum for some time. It is indeed a well moderated forum and a wonderful resource. That said, the underhammer principle is said to have originated in Germany in 1740, and was first patented in the US in 1826, within a couple of years of the appearance of the percussion lock in this country. Why an underhammer rifle with 40-inch barrel and full stock is not "an American long rifle" but a similar rifle from the same time frame with a percussion side lock is, is a distinction lost to me.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top