Upgrade Jukar kit gun or buy different rifle?

[awreis]

I have an older .45 cal jukar kentucky rifle. The rifle is the same as the newer traditions. I was thinking of doing some upgrades such as an L and R lock and get a set of double triggers. If I did this, I would have roughly $425 total invested in the rifle which is what I have seen people selling simular rifles before any upgrades for. My question is, would this makes sense to do? I'm just having a hard time justifying spending $1000 plus on a good quality rifle when I don't have a lot of time to shoot right now but would like something a little nicer than the factory trigger and lock. Sorry for the long post but wanted to try to include all of my thoughts on the matter.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I have an older .45 cal jukar kentucky rifle. The rifle is the same as the newer traditions. I was thinking of doing some upgrades such as an L and R lock and get a set of double triggers. If I did this, I would have roughly $425 total invested in the rifle which is what I have seen people selling simular rifles before any upgrades for. My question is, would this makes sense to do? I'm just having a hard time justifying spending $1000 plus on a good quality rifle when I don't have a lot of time to shoot right now but would like something a little nicer than the factory trigger and lock. Sorry for the long post but wanted to try to include all of my thoughts on the matter.

So the first question that I'd ask..., "How accurate is the rifle from the bench?" IF it's a good shooting rifle, I'd say go ahead.

Your new lock will be a more reliable improvement over the factory lock. I'd suggest that you work on getting the replacement lock installed, and working well with the existing barrel BEFORE you try the double set trigger installation. Reason being, I've found that placement of a replacement trigger, when it's not one that matches the original parts... can be tricky. You may find that the simple replacement of the lock gives you all the upgrade that you would want.

In contrast, I admit, that sometimes an upgraded lock's internal sear location makes an original trigger into a bear when it comes to functioning with the new lock, so you may find that you must upgrade to the set trigger.

LD

 

[sheriff john]

After over 60 years with "project" guns, I've found that putting $100 into a $50 gun will leave me with a $50 gun. If the intent is to create some special gun for my personal enjoyment ..fine, I've done that before. Blew $100, but I had a scaled down .45 for my 8 year-old son. Still worth $50.

Cash value is always only what someone else is willing to pay. Personal value is how much YOU enjoy owning/using it and/or the fun you had "building" it.

In the end, it's all fun. If it weren't fun, we'd be doing something else.

 

[Snooterpup]

So the first question that I'd ask..., "How accurate is the rifle from the bench?" IF it's a good shooting rifle, I'd say go ahead.

Your new lock will be a more reliable improvement over the factory lock. I'd suggest that you work on getting the replacement lock installed, and working well with the existing barrel BEFORE you try the double set trigger installation. Reason being, I've found that placement of a replacement trigger, when it's not one that matches the original parts... can be tricky. You may find that the simple replacement of the lock gives you all the upgrade that you would want.

In contrast, I admit, that sometimes an upgraded lock's internal sear location makes an original trigger a into bear when it comes to functioning with the new lock, so you may find that you must upgrade to the set trigger.

LD

I’m in total agreement with LD.
Make sure it is a good shooter first.
If not, do not bother proceeding.

If you order a replacement lock:
1. Make sure it is returnable if unused/unaltered.
2. When it arrives, match and measure it up to make certain that the sear is in the correct location.
If not, stop, return the new lock. Adding a new lock and set triggers can be very challenging. Also the cost and time spent may be better directed toward a better choice.
Good luck in whatever you choose.
Snoot

 

[54ball]

I have an older .45 cal jukar kentucky rifle. The rifle is the same as the newer traditions. I was thinking of doing some upgrades such as an L and R lock and get a set of double triggers. If I did this, I would have roughly $425 total invested in the rifle which is what I have seen people selling simular rifles before any upgrades for. My question is, would this makes sense to do? I'm just having a hard time justifying spending $1000 plus on a good quality rifle when I don't have a lot of time to shoot right now but would like something a little nicer than the factory trigger and lock. Sorry for the long post but wanted to try to include all of my thoughts on the matter.

The short answer is, No, it’s not worth the time money and effort.


Set triggers on one of these is a major job and may not turn out. This depends on skill set, tools and time.

Here’s one thing to consider about a quality parts set let’s say an upgraded Kibler Woodsrunner Kit with the carved option.
Just a little over a year ago, a carved Virginia Longrifle based on a real gun with nice Rococo carving would cost at least
$5000.00, probably closer to 10K to have that gun built.
You can get the carved set for what ......
Less than $1500, maybe a lot less.

The plainer stuff from Kibler is....
1100-1200????

A basic Track kit that’s a box of parts is close to $1000 or more.

$450 is a good start on a really nice gun (Kibler) that can be put together on the kitchen table.

I’d stick that 450 away in my piggy bank and save up.

 

[54ball]

awreis,

What you can do to improve your Jukar......

The flintlocks on these guns are “potluck”.
Sometimes they can be very good. If the gun is a reliable shooter, I would leave it be.

Trigger pull......
I would polish the lock internals. IE the tumbler and sear.
These were cheap factory guns. Simply polishing the tumbler and sear may improve pull significantly.

If a simple polish does not improve the pull to you liking. You can get a little more into “lock tuning” by stoning and polishing the notch and sear.
This can greatly improve trigger pull but proceed with caution and research this.

I also would look at the trigger inlet to make sure there is no wood contact with the trigger plate/trigger bar.

If there is a lot of slack or free travel before the trigger bar makes contact with the sear you can deepen the trigger assembly slightly.
Another thing you could do is lightly peen the trigger bar to spread it closer to the sear.
Again use caution and see if this is possible.

Most of the time a flintlock will benefit with having the frizzen polished. Consider this if you have really rough chatter marks from flint contact......
It’s just a light polish.
Do not try to remove those marks, you are just smoothing the face some so the flint quits digging on these spots.
Polishing the pan is a good idea as it helps with removing fouling. It’s easier to wipe away fouling from a polished pan.

There’s plenty of things you can do it try with that rifle to improve shoot ability, the biggie.....
Tuning the existing lock.

 

[Phil Coffins]

I have an older .45 cal jukar kentucky rifle. The rifle is the same as the newer traditions. I was thinking of doing some upgrades such as an L and R lock and get a set of double triggers. If I did this, I would have roughly $425 total invested in the rifle which is what I have seen people selling simular rifles before any upgrades for. My question is, would this makes sense to do? I'm just having a hard time justifying spending $1000 plus on a good quality rifle when I don't have a lot of time to shoot right now but would like something a little nicer than the factory trigger and lock. Sorry for the long post but wanted to try to include all of my thoughts on the matter.

Does the inside of your lock look like this?
IMG_0403 by Oliver Sudden, on Flickr

 

[Pete G]

I wouldn’t waste any time on an unbridled lock.

 

[wganz]

Just polish the lock and trigger internals wear ( NOT ENGAGEMENT ) surfaces. This will improve the trigger pull of your existing gun. Below is the 3rd kit in queue for me to work on. From your post, it is my understanding that this is close to what you're looking for.

My suggestion/dos centavos: Clean up your existing rifle to see if tuned is satisfactory; if so, shoot & enjoy. Life is good.
If not, then get the kit below where it is set up from 'the get go' to be a double trigger rifle. Again, clean the internals by polishing where they contact other parts but don't dare tinker with the sear engagement. BTDT & learnt that lesson. Shoot and learn the gun. If still not happy, then get the L&R lock to see if that gets you the mileage that you want.
By that time, you have to skills & experience to take that further step out to a Kibler to do that kit justice.

Again, this is my 2¢,



Classic Muzzleloader Rifles, Pistols, & Accessories

 

[kyron4]

I wouldn’t waste any time on an unbridled lock.

My Traditions Kentucky came with the lock like in Phil's picture, with no bridle. I picked up a CVA bridle at Friendship for $6 and fitted it to my lock. Made a noticeable difference and should make the lock last much longer.

 

[rafterob]

I am in the school of "if it shoots don't fix it". Those are known as good reliable shooters, simple yes. If at some point you find more time to dedicate to the hobby, then upgrade to a better rifle.

 

[awreis]

Does the inside of your lock look like this?
IMG_0403 by Oliver Sudden, on Flickr

Does the inside of your lock look like this?
IMG_0403 by Oliver Sudden, on Flickr

For the most part. The bridle is a little

Does the inside of your lock look like this?
IMG_0403 by Oliver Sudden, on Flickr

The tumbler is a little different.

 

[Phil Coffins]

For the most part. The bridle is a little

The tumbler is a little different.

In the long run it will be an inferior lock even with extra work.

 

[awreis]

awreis,

What you can do to improve your Jukar......

The flintlocks on these guns are “potluck”.
Sometimes they can be very good. If the gun is a reliable shooter, I would leave it be.

Trigger pull......
I would polish the lock internals. IE the tumbler and sear.
These were cheap factory guns. Simply polishing the tumbler and sear may improve pull significantly.

If a simple polish does not improve the pull to you liking. You can get a little more into “lock tuning” by stoning and polishing the notch and sear.
This can greatly improve trigger pull but proceed with caution and research this.

I also would look at the trigger inlet to make sure there is no wood contact with the trigger plate/trigger bar.

If there is a lot of slack or free travel before the trigger bar makes contact with the sear you can deepen the trigger assembly slightly.
Another thing you could do is lightly peen the trigger bar to spread it closer to the sear.
Again use caution and see if this is possible.

Most of the time a flintlock will benefit with having the frizzen polished. Consider this if you have really rough chatter marks from flint contact......
It’s just a light polish.
Do not try to remove those marks, you are just smoothing the face some so the flint quits digging on these spots.
Polishing the pan is a good idea as it helps with removing fouling. It’s easier to wipe away fouling from a polished pan.

There’s plenty of things you can do it try with that rifle to improve shoot ability, the biggie.....
Tuning the existing lock.

I tried this and it did seem to help with the trigger. I think I'm gonna stick with what I have and save up for down the road. My wife has already given me the ok to buy a nice rifle so I'm ahead of the ball game in that aspect. On another note, my pan seems to be slightly bowl shaped in that it curves up slightly just before the flash hole then there is a v groove filed into the side to "guide" the flash into the touch hole. Do you think I would benefit from using a dremmel and making the pan flat across the bottom to the flash hole instead of raising up?

 

[54ball]

I tried this and it did seem to help with the trigger. I think I'm gonna stick with what I have and save up for down the road. My wife has already given me the ok to buy a nice rifle so I'm ahead of the ball game in that aspect. On another note, my pan seems to be slightly bowl shaped in that it curves up slightly just before the flash hole then there is a v groove filed into the side to "guide" the flash into the touch hole. Do you think I would benefit from using a dremmel and making the pan flat across the bottom to the flash hole instead of raising up?

That’s great.

As far as the pan...
That looks a little rough.
Personally I would try to smooth that out with a rat tail or small rounded file.
I woul not try to go deeper because of the side flat of the barrel.
Dremels can be bad news. One slip......bad news.
I’d just clean it up by hand.

 

[kyron4]

Here's some perspective; it's a kind of "is what it is" issue. Phil is correct in that these mass produced locks aren't built for thousands of shots, and eventually will begin to wear and issues can/will arise. However at what round count is that ? 500 ? 1000 ? 1500 ? Hard to say lots of variables. What fails and what wears and at what point does it completely fail to fire at all ? Does a $10 part get it going again ? These guns where/are meant to be affordable for occasional shooting and hunting, not 200 shots every weekend year after year. So shoot it and enjoy it don't worry about issues till they appear if they ever do.

I find it interesting that some guys will spend $1500+ on a high end rifle and only shoot it a few times a year, while most guys will buy a "cheaper" Traditions or older CVA to get in to the hobby and shoot it every chance they get and love every minute of it.

 

[ronaldrothb49]

The question is how much do you want to spend on it? I would polish the inside of the lock plate and use a small stone to very slightly round over the sharp edge of the tumbler where it bears on the plate. A cheap way of getting a better trigger pull would be to get a trigger with a longer plate and then install it to where the trigger rests on the sear about a 1/4" from the pivot point of the trigger. A set trigger won't work with that lock because it doesn't have a fly.

 

[awreis]

Update: This has been done for a while, but I disassembled the lock, polished all surfaces, replaced the tumbler with one that would accept a bridle, installed a bridle, replaced the frizzen and lightened the tention on the frizzen spring. I also welded the knotch that was filed into the pan and reshaped it where it meets the barrel. All in all, I very happy with how this cheaper lock has turned out. The single trigger is much smoother and the lock seems to fire much more reliably. This was a little work but much more rewarding than just trying to replace parts that might not have fixed the issue. Plus being relatively new to flintlocks, I leanerd a lot about locks and ignition reliability.

 

[Banjoman]

I am a fan of Jukar, Traditions and CVA rifles. The ones I have are very accurate and most of them cost less than $100. The only parts I have ever changed were nipples and ram rods. I have learned to shoot them with factory locks and triggers and they work just fine for my purposes. If I wanted something better (?) or different, I’d put the money in a different gun.

 

[awreis]

I am a fan of Jukar, Traditions and CVA rifles. The ones I have are very accurate and most of them cost less than $100. The only parts I have ever changed were nipples and ram rods. I have learned to shoot them with factory locks and triggers and they work just fine for my purposes. If I wanted something better (?) or different, I’d put the money in a different gun.

That's my thought as well. Maybe one day I will be able to justify a good quality rifle but woth three you kids right now, it's not in the budget.