Useable steel

[50cal.cliff]

I am in the process of building up a gas forge to be used in making knives and such! Does anyone outhere know if the round stock of a Chevy axle would have good steel in it for making knives. My son use to race dirt cars and we seem to have an abundance of old axles layin around. :haha:
Got to looking at one the other day. If the steel is good, clip of the part with the hub and you have a round bar of steel approx. 26-28" in length and 1"+ or - in diameter. They are tapered and have a gear on one end but, looks like they are just asking to be heated and hammered out! A fellar could make several knives from one!!!!!!! :hmm:

 

[Titus]

cant help you on the info, but I am looking forward to seeing some pics of the end result. :thumbsup:

 

[rich pierce]

That's very big stock for a knife and is probably a tough steel that won't get the hardness needed for holding a fine edge. Might work for a big throwing knife, etc where "stickin and no breakin" is the main point.

 

I can't find my chart to tell you what the make up of axle steel is but Rich is right, thats a big chunk of steel to hammer out into a knife, you would be better off getting coil spring and hammering that out or better yet get old lawnmower blades, their 1085 and work just fine for knives. Axles do make good hardies though.
Claude

 

[LRB]

Why not just buy 1085,1095,ect., in bar from a supplier? It's cheap, and you know what you have rather than have to guess at it. All lawn mower blades are not 1085. All springs are not 5160, or 1095.

 

[chipper]

By the time you get that piece of steel cut up into pieces and hammer on it for a few days you will probably wish you just went out and bought some stuff like Wick said. A friend who's a weaver of cloth once told me "allways use the best possible material when you make a project". The time one spends making these things, it's worth getting good material. I'm getting to the point where I don't like making anything unless I know what the steel is. It's taken me many months to learn how to make a decent knife, it makes sense to start with good predictable material.
Good luck, no matter what you decide, I hope to see what you come up with.

Regards
Loyd Shindelbower
Loveland Colorado

 

[davy]

Hate to say this guys .. I know its heresy around these parts ... but sometimes for some of us the labor is cheep, and the materials bought expensive! :hatsoff:

Davy

 

[44-henry]

I can't say for certain what steel that axle is made of but I could take an educated guess and say that it is something like 8620 which is a free machining steel meant to be casehardened.

If it is 8620 than it has no use for knifemaking. Easiest way to tell is cut a chunk off and try hardening it. I'm also with the others here in that trying to salvage an unknown steel that requires that much work is probably false economy. There are a lot of better sources for scrap steel that do have known properties to work on something that cumbersome.

 

[Nifeman]

50 Cal., I'm not sure about the material your talkin about but I've been making knives for a while (forging and stock removal) and I sure wouldn't want to hammer it out. About the only "used" steel that I use for forging regularly is old plow points, and cultivator points. Another souce is old worn out allen wrenchs, cold chisels, Black Diamond files and drill rod. I figure if you can use it hitting rocks and such, it's gotta be tough to begin with. Other than that I go with store bought. The others that make knives on this forum are right, it's alot cheaper and you know what you're getting.
Forging is addicting and fun, and I hope this will shorten the learning curve. Just my $0.02, Bud

 

[J.D.]

I seem to remember that many axles are a 40 series steel. Something like 4140, But I'm not sure. 40 series steels are very tough, but a knife made of a 40 series steel won't hold an edge.

Axles should make good hammers, axes, hardy tools, or any tool requiring toughness.

Somewhere on the web there is a chart of common steel alloys used in common products, e.g. lawnmower blades, axles, hay rake teeth, etc.

As serious search should bring it up.
J.D.

 

[50cal.cliff]

I would love to find a chart on steel in commmon steel items. Have searched several times for similar chart.
Thanks for info on axles.Just was thinking I would use something I had available.
I am looking to build a Bowie knife approx. 3/16" thick steel, blade will be approx. 1 1/2" wide at its widest point, and 10" length plus handle, or about 14" total length. That's why I need a large slab to cut from. Have seen a few on Ebay but nothing big enough to cut this knife from. Did see one slab of Alabama Damacus, not long enough and they still wanted over a $120.00 for the slab. Don't care if its Damascus, would settle for just good carbon steel.
Most of the knife sites I have seen only carry allready cut blanks, or slabs to small to cut this knife. This knife is a copy of one my Dad made years ago and a little of my design. The original knife was cut from an old ice saw blade. Similar to an old crooscut saw but thicker! Guess I will just have to keep looking! :hmm:

 

[THOM]

Here ya go Bro.
Hope this helps -
[url] http://home.flash.net/~dwwilson/ntba/archive/junksteel.html[/url]

Do yerself a big favor and listen to these other guys ..
Once you get into quenching;annealing, hardening, tempering; etc.. yer gunna wanta know what steel yer workin' with..
Otherwise you'll build junk knives..
I'm thinking your axel steel will make some mighty fine cutlers hammers..
Trust what these guys say and before ya know it; you'll be fartin' thru pure silk !!! :shocked2: :haha:
Hope it helps -
spring ahead
Limpin'frog :snore: :yakyak: :snore:

 

I am looking to build a Bowie knife approx. 3/16" thick steel, blade will be approx. 1 1/2" wide at its widest point, and 10" length plus handle, or about 14" total length.

Go to the Admiral Steel website - they should have several types of knife making steels in the size you need and they sell small quantities......

as for a chart of Junk Yard Steels - here's a link to one - caveat being these are only generalizations, albeit most are quite close (it says axles are 1040 which is good for axes, hammers, etc but just barely there and then only with special quenching methods to make it worthwhile for a "good" quality knife)....[url] http://www.wrtcleather.com/1-ckd/tutorials/junkyard-2.jpg[/url]

As for testing junkyard steels - there are a couple of fairly simple tests
1) do a spark test (do a search on this one - too much typing to explain it)
2) a simple snap test - heat a section (1/4" thick or so works good) to non-magnetic, quench, (DO NOT temper), and then place it in a vice and if it snaps off like a file, rather than just bending, it should work fine for making a blade..perhaps not the absolute "best", but generally you will get a good/usable blade.

IMO (opinion based on 45+ years making knives)and with all due respect to others - yes buying known steels can help in making a good blade (no guarantees though - the maker has a lot to do with the end quality), but learning how to smith "junkyard" steels can help make you a better smith (this applies more to forging than to stock removal - a completely different subject) and besides it's PC! :grin: :nono: :grin: - let the slings and arrows loose.......

as always others mileage WILL vary......

PS Tom - you ole dawg you - looks likes you and were posting at the same time - you out from under that load of snow yet?

 

[50cal.cliff]

:thumbsup:
Thanks for the chart its great. Thanks for the lead on the steel, all ready added to my favorites.
This will not be exactly be my first knife. But I am no knife maker by any means. The knives I have made in past have all been by stock reduction method.
I understand about using good steel that's why I was inquring as to quality of the steel in the axles. This forge idea will be a new concept for myself. I have fooled around with hammering out fire heated steel before. Never had a way to control that heat though. Usually used a pile of hot coales of a fire, or a torch to do this work. I still have alot to learn in this forge process. I would love to understand more about tempering and figured a forge would give me this opportunity.
I am disabled because of messed up back. The lower part of my back has been fussed, and keeps me in constant pain. The arms still work good though and have learned when to sit down and give back a rest!
I was going to piddle with a few knives see how they turned out. Thought if they were good and maybe could sell a few. This might help with some of the bills. I have been making things all my life. I can weld and have been learning myself to Silver solder with a torch.I been doing carpenter work since just a lad working for my Dad for a dollar a day. Thought that was big money back then! :rotf: :rotf: We usually fixed everything ourselves when I was a kid (wasn't alot of money to go around, then either)! So if I can put this forge together a minimal cost, it will give me something to keep busy at, and who knows could result in a little extra cash. Aint going to sit around and wait to die if you know what I mean! :hmm:

 

[ameling]

Aaaaaahhhhh, mispent youth! (Wait a minute - I didn't mispend most of it - just didn't understand all the consequences!) How we pay for it now! This "getting old" stuff ain't for sissy's!

Forging down an axle to make a knife blade is a lot of work - doing it by hand. That's where the "dumb assistant" comes in - the mechanical power hammer!

One of the simplest junkyard steels to make knives out of are lawnmower blades. Most, but not all, are usually 1085 or 5160. The big thing is, you can get them for FREE, and they already are wide, flat, and consistantly thick. You can find them 1/8" thick on up to 1/4" thick. Most seem to be around 3/16" thick. Just anneal the blade, then cut/chisel out your basic shape. Then you can forge it to the shape/style you want. Watch out for words and numbers stamped into the original blade. If you are worried about any internal cracks or stress from its previous life, just buy a new lawnmower blade to start with.

Lots of agricultural steel is 1080 carbon steel - like those plow shares/points and cultivator shovels. The only drawback is that it tends to be around 1/4" thick when you buy them. That's a lot of hammering or grinding to thin it down.

Below is a chart/list of junkyard steels that I compiled from a number of sources. Of course, these are all ... guess-dimates ... based on published data from various manufacturers of the common steels they used in making the parts, and those types of steels did vary over the years.

I hope this helps. Remember - blacksmithing is ADDICTIVE!

yhs
Mike Ameling
Alledged Blacksmith and Known Iron Torturer

Junkyard Steel

This list was compiled from several sources, including: Machinery's Handbook, Country Blacksmith, Blacksmith's Journal, Artist Blacksmith Association of North America, Blacksmith Association of Missouri, North Texas Blacksmith Association, Upper Midwest Blacksmith Association, and conversations with numerous people.

Agricultural Steel 1080
Axels 1040
Ball Bearing Balls 52100
Ball Bearing Races 52100
Band Saw Blades L-6
Bits - Router M2
Bolts - anchor 1040
Bolts - heat treated 2330
Bolts - heavy duty 4815
Brake lever 1030
Cams A6, S7
Chisels O2, O6, L6
Clutch Disk 1070
Clutch Springs 1060
Coil Springs - auto 4063
Coil Springs - truck 5160
Cold Rolled Steel 1070
Connecting Rods 1040
Crankshafts 1045
Cutters - Bolt S2, S7
Drifts L6, S2, S7
Drills M2
End Mills M2
Fan Blades 1020
Files W2
Gear Shift Levers 1030
Gears - Transmission 3115
Hammers L6
Harrow Disk 1080
Hay Rake Teeth 1095
Jackhammer Bits S5
Knives - machine M2
Knives - woodworking O2
Leaf Springs 1085, 5160
Lock Washers 1060
Mauls L6, S2
Mower Knives (lawnmower) 1085, 5160
Music Wire 1085
Nail Sets L6
Plow Beams 1070
Plow Disk 1080
Plow Shares 1080
Pneumatic Tools L6, A6, S7
Punches - cold A2, O2
Reamers M2, O2, A2
Roller Bearings 4815
Screw Drivers L6, S2
Snap Rings 1060
Spring Clips 1060
Spring Steel - clocks 1095
Steering Arm Bolts 3130
Steering Arms 4042
Taps M2, O2
Transmission Shafts - PTO 4140
Tubing 1040
Universal Joints 1145
Valve Springs 1060
Wrenches L6, S2


Of course, these steel alloy types are the generic or most common types for each item listed. There are always exceptions, by manufacturer and year made. The ABANA web site has a lot of good information on steels and alloys, as do numerous other blacksmithing sites.

Carbon steel is designated by the 10xx numbers. The 10 means carbon steel without other alloys. The last two digits tell you the points of carbon in it - the higher the points of carbon, the better the quality and ability to be hardened/heat-treated. 1095 is high carbon spring steel often used for making knives and flint strikers. Common welding shop steel is usually around 1018 or 1020. Another designation for welding shop steel is now A36.

Lawnmower blades and hayrake teeth are very good for making knives and flint strikers. They are usually 1085 or 5160. The springs and teeth on farm cultivators are usually 1080, as are plow shares. Also good for knife making and flint strikers.

 

[50cal.cliff]

Miss spent youth............ Ah what were we talking about kinda had a flash back there. :rotf:
Its amazing how major back surgery, three heart attacks, two heart stent operations, will affect your views of life. Thanks for the info on the steel Mike.
I still want to build this knife I have got in mind. I don't know what happened to the one my Dad made like it. They had a big estate type sell and sold most everything when My folks decided to move into retirement community. Then my Dad's health went real bad and it wasn't till after he passed away before I even thought about the knife. It came to me in a dream. Freaky huh! Anyways next morning got up and drew pattern out of light cardboard as best as I rememeber the knife. Now I am determined to build one like it! I know :youcrazy: I have been called worse!! :rotf:

 

[THOM]

Heh, heh .. :haha: :haha:
Chuck; Mike, Cliff -
Does this make us members of the " if I had known I was gunna live this long- I'd a taken better care of myself club " ??? :rotf: :rotf:
Bad back; bad ticker, bad breath; bad attitude ..
Beating on hot steel cures all that stuff..
Just got into forging last fall.
( not checks ) - steel.. made sumpin' that kinda sorta looks like a butter knife... :shocked2:
Mike is right - what a lovely addiction.. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Chuck - snow has finally left.. actually saw a robin the other day .
You in mud heaven yet ??
Picked up a 7 layer chevron.. ouch !!!
Will give ya a call soon.. :yakyak:
I'm not the person I once was - thank God fer that !! :surrender:
Spring forward.
Limpin'frog

 

[50cal.cliff]

I might not hear much, but I heared that! :thumbsup:

 

Why not just buy 1085,1095,ect., in bar from a supplier? It's cheap, and you know what you have rather than have to guess at it. All lawn mower blades are not 1085.

What other steels are used? I'm not questioning you being right about it just wondering what other steels are used.
Claude

 

[50cal.cliff]

You know I am really surprised this thread is still kickin. Guess that shows I aint the only one interested in useable steel!!
Claude I hear you! Hows that ole saying go, "belive none of what U read and only half of what you see" or something like that! :rotf: :rotf:
I do take advice, just not a gopel, till I try it myself. Then I step back and say, "Yessir that man knew what he was a talkin about"! This is just about the time I spit my backy juice at yourn feet!!!!!! :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: