Used hawkins Question

[ssastar]

I have a chance to buy a cabelas .54 hawkins at
a good price,It's been taken good care of but the owner had the barrel drilled for a scope.The scope is not on it anymore and i was wondering if the holes would weaken the barrel and make it unsafe to shoot?
Sorry if this is a goofy question.Ive seen these high-tech muzzleloaders drilled and tapped for scopes but not the hawkins type.
Thanks all.

Burdy

 

[Rebel]

If the holes aren't any deeper than the holes that were drilled and tapped for the rear sight i wouldn't worry about it. Put some filler screws in the holes to cover them and shoot it.

 

[jbullard1]

I agree with Rebel
Load it Shoot it
Have fun with it :thumbsup:

 

[roundball]

"...the owner had the barrel drilled for a scope..."

I'm just the opposite...there is no guarantee that the holes were drilled properly...they may have been drilled too deep, etc.
Just my personal view...I wouldn't trust any barrel that had after market holes drilled in it...too many other good used muzzleloaders out there

 

[E Poffinbarger]

ssastar:

If the rifle is as you say at a "good price"; worst case you would only need a new barrel. As you probably know most of the Cabela's Hawkins were actually made by Investarms SPA, Italy the same folks who makes the Lyman GPR's, which are quality off-the-shelf rifles.

If the scope mount holes appear to be professionally done, then I agree, flush fitting screws would suffice my concerns.

Osage

 

[Zonie]

IMO, if the drilled holes do not go thru to the bore, there is no stress problem in shooting the gun with normal loads.

Even if the drilled holes go thru to the bore there is no stress problem with shooting the gun. After all, threaded holes are used on the percussion rifles with percussion drums on the side of the barrel and with Flintlocks with large touch hole liners installed in the side of the barrel.
This doesn't mean I like the idea of holes being drilled thru the barrel walls. The thru hole will catch on the patch and possibly tear it and they provide a good place for fouling to collect which can lead to rust forming in the threads.

zonie

 

[longcruise]

I'm with Zonie. Do a depth check of the holes and see how much barrel is left under the holes. And, like Zonie said, even if they go all the way through, they can be filled with threaded plugs. If you don't like the looks of them, go to the harware store and get hex head set screws in extra length and seat them tight, cut them off close to the barrel and draw file them flush.

I got one of those guns a couple years ago in a round of trading. I didn't really want or need it so I sold it to a freind getting started. He loves it and the targets he showed me from his first trip to the range with any ml gun showed it shoots pretty good too.

If the price is right, you should buy it.

 

[ssastar]

Thanks guys for all your help.
After looking the gun over again
and thinking about what you all said
i believe the hawkins will do me just fine.
Thanks again.

burdy

 

[rudy parnell]

:grin: My friends here aren't going to tell you this....but the truth is all you need now is the scope base and the rings and a scope. Those holes cost a minimum of $10 a piece to drill and tap.

Remember to select a scope that will clear the hammer.... If the holes are really far forward of the hammer you may want to consider a long eye relief scope or maybe a red dot. Back in the day... the outfit you have was a big step forward...especially in low light situations.

 

[paulvallandigham]

OPNe of the things you should consider about those holes, and using a scope, is that you can use the scope when doing load development, to remove problems with your own eyes and experience shooting open sights, from the equation. When you find a truly accurate load with the scope, you have an ACCURATE LOAD for that gun. Remove the scope and mount, then, and zero that load for the open sights you are using to hunt. Simple. If your groups open up using open sights, you know its YOU and not the load that is the cause for the larger group.

The way to reduce the size of the groups down to what you had with the scope is to PRACTICE. You don't have to practice with that ML rifle using full power load. You can do much of your practing learning to shoot small groups with open sights with a .22LR rifle, with open sights. When you get the technique improved, you can then return to the MLer, and see the improvements carry over. That is both a cheaper way to do it, a faster way to do it, as you can shoot fixed ammo a lot faster, and a lot more times, than it takes to reload your MLer. More important, you can learn all the basic target shooting skills with that .22, before burning up powder and balls with the bigger gun. I don't know any good shooter who doesn't own a couple of .22 rifles for " practice ". I think I have 3 of them right now, but I haven't looked in the gun closet for some time, and there may be one or two more. I keep them for friends and relatives, of course..... :bull:

 

[roundball]

How does this compare to the helicoil issue?

 

[Dave K]

A properly installed helicoil is at least equal to or not better than the material that it is installed into. In other words, if you are going steel to steel, it is as good as the threads would be if there is no helicoil. If it is a helicoil in aluminium, it is better than threads in aluminium. That is, if properly installed.

 

[Zonie]

Dave K is correct. A properly installed Helicoil screw thread insert is as strong or stronger than the parent material unless the parent material is made from a high strength alloy steel.

The prime complaint about the company which used these screw thread inserts in their gunbarrels was that it was a "fix" for a manufacturing error and people did not like the idea of buying "repaired" parts and paying new part prices.

Also, the clearance between the threads of the helicoil insert and the barrel provided a area for fouling to collect, increasing the likelyhood of rust forming in the parent materials threads.


If the barrel on the gun that's being looked at does not have thru holes into the bore, plugging the holes with a screw or even leaving the hole as it is will not pose any problems and it is not the same as the helicoil issue.

If the holes do open into the bore, if the screw plugs that are installed into the holes to seal them are installed using a thick thread locking compound like 2 part epoxy to seal them there will be no leakage thru the threads and the threads will be protected from fouling and water which may cause corrosion.
zonie

 

[roundball]

Could be...don't know about all that.
To me 'personally', buying a barrel with unwanted holes drilled in it to be filled with set screws is like buying a tire that I have to put a plug/patch in...or a GM barrel with a helicoil in it...just not anything I'm be interested in doing with all the other MLs out there...but I fully understand that everyone's mileage can vary.

 

[Maynerd62411]

A couple of years ago, I bought a .54 Renegade at an auction that had a scope on it. Filler screws put in at the local gun shop did the trick. I've had no problems whatsoever. :thumbsup: