Very stuck minie ball, tried everything having to pull the breech plug

[SHAGBARK]

What the what???? All the people that took their time and intuition to try and help the OP with solid advise and he abandons his thread and doesn't alert others to the successful removal of the projectile? The nerve of some people. We now know all we need to know about the user.....guys, don't waste your time.

I've had a very stuck prb before,the screw pulled out of the lead it's very frustrating. I kept enlarging the hole . Then I took 1/4 in althread wrapped electric tape around it and threaded it all the way though the ball. Next drill a1/4 in hole in a quarter,put it over the all thread to protect the crown. Add another washer , run a nut on it and as I tightened up the nut the very stuck prb came around to my way of thinking. Just another last resort option.

 

[Appowner]

What the what???? All the people that took their time and intuition to try and help the OP with solid advise and he abandons his thread and doesn't alert others to the successful removal of the projectile? The nerve of some people. We now know all we need to know about the user.....guys, don't waste your time.

Know a bit more about you too. Just Saying!

 

[Juice Jaws]

Thank you for your lesson and I’m not an all knowing god like some, but the only mistake I see that I made was using pyrodex instead of black powder. I don’t think there’s much else of a mistake to learn from here friend

I think the mistake you made was using too big of a ball. Have dry ball my share of times and never had a problem getting the ball out. Take it to someone who knows what to do and find out what size ball to use next time

 

[45man]

I agree we should have been informed, however I am happy it is fixed.

 

[jimairwin]

If a person ran hot wax behind the bullet, when it solidified you could try again with the grease gun.

I've always just shot'em out.

 

[M. De Land]

This is what I was responding to, not the advice on melting out a slug, which BTW, I would not do. "That makes sense to learn as much as you can about any of these endeavors first but they all have an element of nuance that must be learned by actually doing it at some point and learning from trial and error the best method for personally employing ones strengths and avoiding their weaknesses." The part about trial and error....just saying a novice may not realize the magnitude of the error involved when being advised to do certain fixes. Anyway, all water under the bridge now as the OP has resolved his problem.

Any one who has sweat relined or lead slug hand lapped barrels knows what I'm advising is true but I can see how the novice might think it a bit radical sounding. The irony is pounding it out with ill fitting steel rods after breech plug removal is really the more radical approach.

 

[Ed C.]

Any one who has sweat relined or lead slug hand lapped barrels knows what I'm advising is true but I can see how the novice might think it a bit radical sounding. The irony is pounding it out with ill fitting steel rods after breech plug removal is really the more radical approach.

I know this. Spending over 40 years as a pipefitter, installer and fabricator of industrial chillers I spent many days from dawn to dusk either cutting or brazing with a torch. And even with all that experience I still sometimes will overheat a work piece. I guess if you stopped heating as soon as you saw lead running out of the barrel it might be safe. Depends on if other parts nearby may be soldered to the gun and possibly loosening up threads on snail drums and breech plugs, melting or burning out any sealants used. And then there is the possibility, however slight, that the lead might take to the barrel and tin it. Oh boy if that happens! Might be SOP for many but I feel I know enough to not try it on anything I really value. To each his own.

 

[Philip Lebow]

This was great entertainment. I wish everybody success on their method of extraction.

 

[Bad Karma]

What the what???? All the people that took their time and intuition to try and help the OP with solid advise and he abandons his thread and doesn't alert others to the successful removal of the projectile? The nerve of some people. We now know all we need to know about the user.....guys, don't waste your time.

Well, it was all free advice (and unsolicited opinions) anyway so I’d say he got more than his money’s worth…

 

[M. De Land]

Yes, pure lead melts at 621.5 F, thank you. Don't know why I was thinking 500F. Any way it's not hot enough to ruin barrel steel or good bluing.

Cerosafe melts at under 500 degrees and is where I got mixed up as I cast pure lead slugs for lapping and cerosafe slugs for measuring. Getting old I guess mixing that up! I kept wondering where in the world I came up with the wrong melt temp of pure lead as I know better if I thought about it for a minute. Appreciate the correction so as to get the information straight!

 

[M. De Land]

I have a 1861 Springfield that has an exceptionally stuck minie ball. Like it’s bad. I tried blasting it out atleast 10 times it hasn’t moved. I tried the grease gun but the grease went around the minie so that didn’t work. I broke two ball pullers of on the ball, JB welded the last puller into my rod and it still stripped the puller. I took it to a gunsmith with air and pullers and he couldn’t budge it. I tried soaking it in soapy water, rem oil around it to penetrate the ball and it is just not coming. I guess im going to send it to a gunsmith like lodgewood to yank the breech plug. Is this a big deal? Anyone know any gunsmiths that can do it in East TN?View attachment 315922

One more caution is to check for a ring in the barrel where the slug was stuck in case the person who removed it didn't !

 

[M. De Land]

Since it is an original, there is a chance that it has progressive depth grooves. If the bullet has expanded due to deformation, this will make removal even harder.

Did you mean depth or pitch of rifling ?

 

[M. De Land]

This idea has been tried a couple months ago on a different posting. It so to speak worked in removing lead, but it mostly ruined the gun. The results are not good, let me restate it will be trash afterwards. Not a good idea at all.

You simply do not know what your talking about as you obviously have never done so with a simple propane torch! I've melted lap slugs out of many barrels personally and have never even ruined the finish let alone the barrel steel!
Course a barrel can be over heated with to much uncontrolled heat but a hand held propane torch or two cannot produce enough BTU's to do so.
How in the world do you think barrels were routinely relined before the advent of epoxy or Loc-tite?
They are solder in place, you know with lead/tin solder.

 

[Dusty_Traveler]

@M. De Land

The depth of the groove itself.

The groove is deeper at the breech end than at the muzzle. It squeezes the bullet down on the way out the tube.

 

[M. De Land]

@M. De Land

The depth of the groove itself.

The groove is deeper at the breech end than at the muzzle. It squeezes the bullet down on the way out the tube.

I wonder how that was accomplished with cut rifling used in these old guns? I know Pope lapped taper into his bores after single point hook rifling them and I've heard it speculated it can be done with broach rifling and graduating coil heating of a barrel as the broach is drawn through but have not actually verified that to be a reality.
Most of the taper from lapping is on the lands not the grooves. Especially with gain twist as these cannot be lead lapped with poured slugs but rather are lapped with leather washer columns that can conform to the gain.
Gain twist does change/increase the width of the groove as it progresses forward and the angle of the cutter is increased.

 

[rickystl]

Interesting Thread. Here's a good one: Years ago while at the range shooting my Euroarms 1858 Enfield. I was loading behind the bench, and got busy talking to the shooter next to me, not paying enough attention to what I was doing while loading. Fortunately, just before I approached the bench to shoot, a light bulb went off in my head. Did I load correctly ? Hmmm. Went back to the loading area and lowered the wood field rod down the barrel. The length of the rod sticking out of the bore was way too long. DARN. So I was sure I didn't dry ball. So, did I load 60grs. of FFG and a minie ball ? Or 2-loads of FFG and a mine ball ? Or, did I have 2 complete loads of powder and minnie balls, one on top of the other ? And, judging by the length of that rod outside the muzzle, it was likely that later. DARN Darn. So I tried pulling the top load out with a ball puller. Won't budge. Like the OP, I took it home and tried everything. No luck. If I knew for sure I had one load of powder and two minnie balls on top of each other, or two 60grs load of powder and one minnie, I would have just capped the nipple and pointed it down range and fired the load off. But with two complete loads back to back and not being able to extract the front ball, I was thinking this would be more like a bore obstruction in attempting to shoot the load out. So, sent the barrel to my good friend and black powder gunsmith and had him un-breech the barrel and knock out the load. Sure enough, I had loaded twice. It was a good reminder to me to pay attention to what your doing while loading. My bad.

Rick

 

[Ed C.]

Interesting Thread. Here's a good one: Years ago while at the range shooting my Euroarms 1858 Enfield. I was loading behind the bench, and got busy talking to the shooter next to me, not paying enough attention to what I was doing while loading. Fortunately, just before I approached the bench to shoot, a light bulb went off in my head. Did I load correctly ? Hmmm. Went back to the loading area and lowered the wood field rod down the barrel. The length of the rod sticking out of the bore was way too long. DARN. So I was sure I didn't dry ball. So, did I load 60grs. of FFG and a minie ball ? Or 2-loads of FFG and a mine ball ? Or, did I have 2 complete loads of powder and minnie balls, one on top of the other ? And, judging by the length of that rod outside the muzzle, it was likely that later. DARN Darn. So I tried pulling the top load out with a ball puller. Won't budge. Like the OP, I took it home and tried everything. No luck. If I knew for sure I had one load of powder and two minnie balls on top of each other, or two 60grs load of powder and one minnie, I would have just capped the nipple and pointed it down range and fired the load off. But with two complete loads back to back and not being able to extract the front ball, I was thinking this would be more like a bore obstruction in attempting to shoot the load out. So, sent the barrel to my good friend and black powder gunsmith and had him un-breech the barrel and knock out the load. Sure enough, I had loaded twice. It was a good reminder to me to pay attention to what your doing while loading. My bad.

Rick

Yep, stuff happens when distracted. Here is one I haven't seen mentioned. Dropping a RB down the barrel without the patch. The powder I knew was in there. I tried to shake the ball out so I could patch it but that wasn't working so I figured I'd just shoot it out. No big deal. Mistake # 2. I had ASSumed it had gone all the way to the breech but didn't bother to seat it with the ramrod. Thinking back it probably was not all the way down making for a dangerous situation. I shot it out and Darwin spared me and my gun from any harm that day.

 

[M. De Land]

Yep, stuff happens when distracted. Here is one I haven't seen mentioned. Dropping a RB down the barrel without the patch. The powder I knew was in there. I tried to shake the ball out so I could patch it but that wasn't working so I figured I'd just shoot it out. No big deal. Mistake # 2. I had ASSumed it had gone all the way to the breech but didn't bother to seat it with the ramrod. Thinking back it probably was not all the way down making for a dangerous situation. I shot it out and Darwin spared me and my gun from any harm that day.

I have long preached about not liking the use of 12L14 barrels as it is not certified barrel steel and weak in shock loading and two winters ago I was present when such a swamped barrel made of the alloy split in the narrows from a normal load that was short started and not seated down to the powder.

 

[sethwyo]

Forgive me if I've missed something here but why don't you just take the breech plug out?

 

[reddogge]

Forgive me if I've missed something here but why don't you just take the breech plug out?

What you missed is the OP took it to a gunsmith who removed the breech plug and got the bullet out.