Vise for hammer & chisel engraving

[Onojutta]

A couple years ago I started teaching myself to engrave using hammer & chisel, and have been using this inexpensive swivel vise from Harbor Freight. It actually works very well, since it can pivot in two directions, and does not vibrate or move when cutting. However, sometimes the process of stopping work, loosening the screw, pivoting the vice, then tightening the screw can take just enough time to disrupt the flow of work.

I've considered getting a ball vise like this one on Amazon. (Can't spend a grand on a GRS one). Would this be secure enough, or are these ball vises intended for pneumatic and push engraving where you have one hand on the vise at all times?

 

[John R]

The vise you found on Amazon looks worth the price, I would give it a try.

This one came in a box of antique tools I bought in Denver, CO. Patented May 2, 1899. I had to make the pins and the key as both were missing. Still works great. Note the bottom is reversible, with round side down it nests in the typical shot filled leather bag that Engravers use.

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
GRS engraving balls can be had for less than $400-$500. Where do you get this idea they cost a grand? Moreover, they can be locked in place or allowed to spin and the force necessary adjustable. The vise you showed would be very awkward to use when trying to cut smooth curves.

dave

 

[billraby]

I have a ball vise that works great with a Lindsay graver. But I doubt it would work well for hammer and chisel. Even with the rotation locked it is still going to move around with every hit.

 

[John R]

Hi,
GRS engraving balls can be had for less than $400-$500. Where do you get this idea they cost a grand? Moreover, they can be locked in place or allowed to spin and the force necessary adjustable. The vise you showed would be very awkward to use when trying to cut smooth curves.

dave

Good info, I had no idea of the GRS pricing myself. If you are serious about anything, buy the best and cry once!

 

[dave_person]

I have a ball vise that works great with a Lindsay graver. But I doubt it would work well for hammer and chisel. Even with the rotation locked it is still going to move around with every hit.

Hi,
No, they don't. Been using it with hammer and chisel for years.

dave

 

[Tom A Hawk]

I have a cracked bowling ball I've been saving to make a swivel ball vice. Now I'm waiting for the motivation to saw it in half...

 

[billraby]

Hi,
No, they don't. Been using it with hammer and chisel for years.

dave

Well I can't argue with that. But I don't get it. I have been using ball vises for many years. They are good for more than engraving. I have not done hammer and chisel engraving with a ball vise. Does it not tilt when you hit the graver, or have you done something to prevent that?

 

[Robby]

Probably has more to do with how sharp your graver is! Just kidding, but I have wondered that myself, how does it not move a little. That nagging question is probably why I never bit the bullet and just bought one.
Robby

 

[toot]

I would like to engrave, but one slip of the chisel and it turns into checkering!

 

[Barry Strickland]

No, the ball vise will not turn while you are using the graver hammer on it. Remember you are using a one ounce hammer with very light taps, not driving nails.

 

[Pete G]

I would like to engrave, but one slip of the chisel and it turns into checkering!

Most originals don't have top notch engraving, but the overall effect works out well. Not everyone can engrave like Dave, but we are working on frontier rifles, not Italian shotguns.

 

[jlutz]

I have a cracked bowling ball I've been saving to make a swivel ball vice. Now I'm waiting for the motivation to saw it in half...

I think the bowling ball vices are a great idea as well. I first saw it used by Joe Keeslar, MS for use with wire inlay on his knives and they work very well.

https://blademag.com/knifemaking/make-bowling-ball-vise-6-steps

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
Here I am cutting a mortice for a front sight. This task requires much more force than normal engraving.

Here is my set up for engraving.

I built the turn table when I lived in Alaska. I have my GRS ball on top of it. When using hammer and chisel, I tighten the lock screw on the base so it cannot turn but the turn table can spin. I move the table with my stomach as I cut curves. I use a Lindsay Airgraver for all my detail work now because I can no longer see the tip of a chisel really well while chasing. I've resorted to cutting toward me when using a chisel. I can huddle over the Airgraver and move it around like a hand push burin, which allows me to see the work really well for details. However, I often cut main lines with hammer and chisel because I want to preserve a vintage look on most of my guns. I do not want the engraving to look like modern, perfect bank note work. That style looks wrong on the guns, even high end English guns before the 19th century. One task in which ball vises are useless is engraving on long gun barrels. Pistol barrels are fine but I use an old Parrot vise to hold barrels.

dave

 

[Robby]

No, the ball vise will not turn while you are using the graver hammer on it. Remember you are using a one ounce hammer with very light taps, not driving nails.

You have never seen me engraving!
Robby

 

[Onojutta]

Is there a minimum weight and diameter that works best with H&C? I'm sure the heavier the better, but the heavier the more costly as well.

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
I have a GRS Magnablock ball vise that weighs 30 lbs. They are about $750 at current retail but you can find them cheaper and used online. The GRS standard block weighs 22 lbs and works well. I bought the larger ball because I thought I needed the larger jaws and jaw opening but I really have not needed that. The standard ball has 1" narrower jaws and 1/2" less open width. However, there are other cheaper options. If you can put a good quality Parrot vise on a turning axle, it would work well. Here is my set up in Alaska before I had a GRS ball. It uses my turn table and cheap suction mounted ball vice from Garret Wade or Lee Valley or somewhere. It worked fine as a good start. I included examples of work I did with that system.

I just had a corner of a single car garage as my shop. The vise set up worked well for hammer and chisel and also when I added the Airgraver. I often reflect on how far I've come over the last 2 decades.

dave

 

[Onojutta]

Thanks for all the great info here. For the price, I might give the vise on Amazon a shot. It’s 17.5 lbs.

Jaw width isn’t as much a concern for me because I usually mount the work on a wood block that is screwed to a piece of angle iron and clamp the other leg of the angle in the vise.

Been practicing on small steel and brass plates until I get good enough to “go live” on patch box and side plate. Haven’t thought much yet about how I will hold a barrel but I’m a long way from having the skill and confidence to engrave barrels and will cross that bridge when I get to it.

Dave, what advantage does the turntable give you instead of just rotating the vice?

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
The turn table moves more smoothly and I don't need to take my hands away from the work because I turn the table with my stomach.

dave

 

[Onojutta]

Update: Having learned the lesson that you get what you pay for a hundred times over, I figured I'd take a chance and give the relatively inexpensive vise found on Amazon a try. Every once in a while you get lucky. The vice itself was fine, but the rubber base was very soft and did not provide enough support to keep the vise from vibrating when hammer & chisel cutting. Might be OK if using pneumatic and your non-cutting hand is supporting the vise, but a no-go for H&C.

So back to Amazon it went, and I found this made in USA vise from Pepetools (link below). This vise is fantastic and while nearly three times the price, still considerably less costly than the similar model from GRS (I believe it is comparable to the GRS Standard Block). It has an attractive wood base that is lined on the inside with a thin felt material that provides enough friction to steady the vise, but allows for easy rotation. I'm very happy with it and my engraving improved overnight as the result of finally having a proper way to hold the work. I have never used a GRS vise so I can't provide a direct comparison, but this vise seems to get the job done well.

As an aside, I'm not sure but I suspect the GRS vises might be foreign made, as identical vises marked GRS are available on the grey market (eBay) shipped directly from Asia at a steep discount. But those could be knock-offs and I didn't want to take a chance. One seller I questioned indicated they have a rubber base. Not sure if that rubber base is any better than the one from Amazon or the same as the genuine GRS, but I'd be surprised if they come any stiffer than the wood base from Pepetools. The only downside I could see long term would be the felt possibly wearing out, but that should be easy to replace should it ever happen.

I have no interest in plugging the Pepetools vise other than to share what I consider to be a good find at a reasonable price if anyone else happens to come across this thread while looking for same. Gesswein also sells the same vise for $4 more, don't know if they charge any more or less for shipping.

https://pepetools.com/products/engraving-block-6
https://www.gesswein.com/p-12931-6-...a_caa8dIfwvk8pLdtl2-X1eE_Qwjbbs8aAtboEALw_wcB