Walker or Dragoon ?

[user 52142]

Wizard, have ya had a chance to shoot that WhitneyVille yet?

Morning Crow Choker. No unfortunately havent been able to make it to the range yet. Hoping to get there this weekend.

Have a great day
Bill

 

[borne2fly]

I have a Walker and a 3rd Dragoon, both Uberti. Love ‘em both! I tend to favor the Dragoon (only slightly) because I find it easier to lug around in a holster.
I disassembled both upon receiving and took a file to all the unfinished sharp edges, and smoothed the rough-finished machined surfaces (liberal use of emery cloth). Nothing difficult. Oh … and lubed everything that moves. Everything spins and locks as it should.
The notorious arbor issue … I use a brass plug. The arbor hole appears to have been drilled with a standard 118 degree drill, so I incorporated that angle into the brass “pill” I made. The “pill” is a loose drop-fit into the hole. I have several cylinders for each gun and it seems they can vary in length ever so slightly. This is managed by adding a corresponding shim to the pill. Two cylinders need only the pill, one is a bit shorter and requires the additional shim.
I view these cap pistols much like classic cars …. lots of fun, but some hands-on tinkering is to be expected

 

[Crow Choker]

Good shootin Wizard with yer Walker when ya get it going. Was gonna post this before ya got yer Walker, but others may wonder also so here goes. I have a Walker and three Dragoons, A WhitneyVille, 2nd and 3rd Model. 2nd model my favorite. Like the square back trigger, was also my first so partial to it. Have assort of other capper models and brands also.

1) Ball size: .454 vs .457. Tried both in my Walkers and Dragoons. No difference in accuracy in either model. The .457's are a 'B' to seat in most cases. .451" balls are too small, .454's shave a nice ring and are in tight. I use .454's in all of my 44 caliber Uberti and Pietta cappers. I always use a greased felt wad between powder and ball-excellent results over last 15-20 years. A 50 grain charge, plus felt wad, and a ball seats nice in a Walker. No time for fillers, unneeded extra step. No messy over the ball grease/concoctions which aren't real effective anyway. Been shooting cappers since 1972.

2) Powder: My Dragoons- while I can use more, I normally load around 40-42 grains of FFF (Goex). Have gone down to 35 or so but seems a bit under powered. Anything over 45 is overkill and results in unburned powder. Walker-Have tired the near 60 grains of FFF, but overpowered, ain't trying to knock down a horse or impress any one with shock and awe. Most loads are around 50 of FFF Goex, 45-47 works ok, but like the 50 grainer. Have tried FF a bit in the Dragoons, tried quite a little in the Walker but couldn't see much of an advantage. Most say FF will give a slower power/pressure curve building up, so a large dose in a Walker will supposedly tame everything down. Believe a coronagraph and other testing equipment might show different, but at the ranges and style of shooting I do I couldn't see any plus or difference. I'll save the FF for my 44 Colt metallic reloads in my 44 conversions. Although I do use FF a bit more than I used to.

3) 45D's posts on page 2 are spot on as is 'earlwb's. Reread them. Alot of other good advice. I like 'Bulls-eye's post reference the WhitneyVille or Transition Dragoon ie. "Being the best of both worlds." The Whit has the frame and barrel size and weight of the 1-2-3rd Models, but the grip frame and such of the Walker. I really like shooting mine, handles real nice. The WhitneyVille and 1st Model Dragoon have the oval bolt stops like the Walker, while the 2nd and 3rd have the rectangular bolt cuts like later model Colts. At one time I thought the oval cuts were and would be less in ability to lock up the large Walker and Dragoon cylinder. A real engineered minded and knowledgeable member over on the CAS forum a few years back showed the nonsense of this with CAD drawings and other details showing the oval cuts to be just as strong and effective. FWIW the Uberti repo WhitneyVille and 1st Model Dragoon doesn't have the V spring like the Walker of the originals, rather has the same leaf spring as the 2nd and 3rd Models. That's just the way Uberti makes em. Some say more reliable, others say not as smooth as a V spring. Works for me having the leaf spring.

**Also** Learn how to check the arbor length on your Uberti Walker/Dragoon (or any cap and ball revolver). There are a variety of ways to resolve. 45D a great smith does a great job ifin Ya can't do yourself or have no one to fix. Learn what it is and how to check. Most Colt Open Top style revolvers suffer some form of it. All but 3-4 of my 10 cappers and 4 conversions had bad fitting arbors. I've planned to do a permanent fix by means of adding a brass studded button on the end of the arbor then filing for fit. Others screw in a metal apparatus then adjust the screw for length and add sealant, so it'll not loosen. So far I've gotten by by checking the needed gap to make a solid arbor/frame contact and adding brass washers the same diameter as the arbor. I bought four thicknesses of brass washers at my local ACE Hardware and played around with the four sizes with each revolver to attain a solid lockup. I heavily grease between the shims and on the one that goes into the arbor hole. Helps em not to come out when taking the barrel off, but ya got to watch it just in case. Have it written down what each one takes. Not a permanent fix, but an effective one.

4) Ball rammer lever falling: Always a biggy with open top Colt percussions prior to the 1851 Model when they improved the latch system. On the Dragoons Uberti unless they've changed has never had a deep enough ledge on the barrel stud that engages the loading lever latch. My 2nd Model would drop the lever at least 2-3 times per 6 rounds. Powder puff loads were ok, but I didn't want any part of that. Read up on it and after slow filing, trial and error, I filed the barrel stud ledge deep enough to retain the lever at 40-42 grain charges. Take care doing this. A fellow forum member on CAS advised he put a stiffer spring in the channel that operates the lever latch and had success with that.

On Walkers being a different arrangement with no barrel stud/lever latch I've read of success by others in filing a small flat on the loading lever protrusion that hangs down from the barrel. Alot call it a spring. If ya look at it it appears to be a half moon affair. The flat needs to be on the top side of it (towards the barrel). A small flat filed at around the 12 o'clock to 2 o'clock area needs to be filed. I haven't done it yet, its on the 'been-gonna' list of gun tinkering. If ya don't understand it, really study how the lever locks in the lever void and how much needs to be taken off. Slow and easy is the key. File and try. I've heard of some who go into it like a beaver to a beech tree and it results in a lever needing hydraulic pressure to get it to detach.

So far I've gotten along with using a "O ring" around the barrel and lever. I spent 19 years as a heavy equipment operator and always kept a packet of O Rings in my possible bag while working in case some hydraulic O ring went "blewee". When I first got the Walker I did the tie a rag around, rubber bands, period correct leather thong, and a few other things to retain the lever. One day at work when replacing an O ring I thought, these would work great on that Walker. Gave em a try and have never looked back. Can't say as of now what size, but not hard to determine. Anyway, they come in variety of sizes and colors, but the black IMO work's best. Not as noticeable to me or others and best thing is the black doesn't detract while aiming like the white or pink or yellow ones. They do work. I'll try and find the ones I'm using and come back and edit this post as to the best size-not hard to determine though. If ya don't have any or have access, take yer Walker to your nearest friendly auto center or mechanic and try and buy. They do sell in packets and singularly. Go somewhere though where they know ya-walk into some store where they don't know ya and pull out a Walker and hard to say what will happen.

OK, have gotten windy and long. Hope this helps anyone with Walker/Dragoon thoughts/questions. Loading, ball size, powder, loading lever dropping. Some say these are to heavy of a hogleg to carry on a plinking walk. I've strapped one of each to my left and right side (balance each other out pretty good), alot of times a shoulder holster with some other six shooter, maybe a bandoleer of metallic ammo over shoulder, one around my waste, and a shootin bag and have walked the banks of one of the two nearby rivers on a afternoon plinking and making smoke. I'm in pretty good shape but no NFL bemouth type, although a 20 mile walk all day in the hot sun would be something! Will admit if I'd step in a deep hole in the water I'd sink fast, but I stay away from them.

Hello to the Forum. This thread dates back to last January of this year, but I've always been going to make a correction and add some additional information. In item #3, I mentioned that the Whitneyville/Transition Dragoon and 1st model Dragoon didn't have the original V main springs as the originals. Wrong-didn't proof read as I should have. The Whitneyville/Transition Dragoon as made today by Uberti DOES have the original V type spring, the 1st Model Dragoon DOESNOT, but rather has the leaf spring. Colt back in the day had the V spring in the 1st and 2nd Models. The first run of 2nd models (serial #8000-10,000) had the V spring, but around #10,000 changed over to the leaf spring and roller setup and continued it with the 3rd Model. Uberti doesn't offer a V spring for any of the 1st or 2nd models nor does any of the parts outlets such as Numrich or any of the online sellers of blackpowder revolvers, the 1st-3rd all get the same leaf spring.

The additional information I've been going to add concerned loading levers dropping when firing is in Item #4. With the four Dragoon models it is mostly filing the loading lever notch stud a bit deeper and/or putting a stiffer spring in the end of the loading lever. I've had great results in filing the notch a bit deeper so the catch sits in the notch deeper. Haven't yet added a stiffer spring, but many on the CAS forum have had good results by doing so. On the Walkers being no lever catch and stud, a shooter has two basic options. As I mentioned in my original post, you can file a flat on the hanging spring, protrusion, or whatever ya want to call it. Those who I've read that have done so have had great success. Those that have performed this fix say to do with care. To much filing will jam the lever really tight needing a gorilla or hydraulic means to drop the lever. If curious there is a post on the CAS Forum. Search 'Walker loading lever fix'. Around four threads down there is a post by a guy called 'Hellgate' that has done it with success showing a picture and process.

I mentioned using 'O Rings' to hold my Walker lever up. Beats a leather thong and/or a rag tied around the barrel/lever. Easier to remove. Maybe they didn't have em in 1847 plus, but a whole lot easier to work with. I mostly use 7/8"x 3/4"x 1/16" black O rings. A 15/16" x 3/4" x 1/16" will work, but the 7/8" size seem to work better, a bit tighter. Using the same OD and ID rings but one that is up in diameter a 3/32" will work, but the larger diameter will hide the front sight when aiming. The 1/16" run me around .50 each. I carry a few extra with me just in case one breaks or is lost. To date, I've never broke one. They at times will get a little stretchy/oily, when that happens I just toss it and start over with a new one. When loading I just slip the O ring forward a bit to get it from the lever, the back part of the front sight does a pretty good job of keeping it from falling off the barrel. Picture of O Ring around Walker barrel/lever included at no extra cost.

 

[Malamute]

Haven't yet added a stiffer spring, but many on the CAS forum have had good results by doing so.

I recall some mentioning putting a piece of lead shot or ball bearing under the factory spring to give it a more pre-load.

 

[Crow Choker]

To anyone interested here is a picture of a Walker 'Spring' that has been modified to hold the loading lever in place while firing. This was taken from the CAS Forum posting by a CAS member (Hellgate) that I referred to in my last post. Some have mentioned that they bought a spare from the likes of Cimarron ($17), Taylors ($19), or VTI ($23) to have on hand in case they filed to much off but didn't need the spare as filing on the original did the job. Some Walker owners say they keep one on hand anyway in case the one on their Walker/Walkers breaks.