Want to get into Muzzleloading and have a lot of questions so I figured I would post in this forum.

[Murphy_Roberts]

Hey all, just joined the forum today and I have many, many questions. Recently I became a member of the Maryland Forestry Service and all but 1 member on my 12 man crew is big into using Flintlocks ( that member is me). I went shooting with them a few times and fell in love. I was amazed by the flintlocks they had. It all seems so much more interesting than just plopping a brass chunk into a barrel and going bang. I asked them what flintlock I should start off with as I haven't a clue and this was the response I got. 3 of my crew members use .45cal rifles and said to go with them as there is a powder shortage right now and they use less powder. 2 of my crew members said to use .58 caliber as it kills more efficiently and renders .50 and .54 useless. 5 crew members use smooth barrel flintlocks ( I called them shotgun and was sternly reminded that they are actually "Fowlers". 3 use Pedersoli Trade Guns, 1 uses a Veteran Arms Fusil de chasse and the last uses an original fowler from CT which is longer than a telephone pole. Finally my Supervisor and Foreman both use .65 cal German rifles they bought at a show in Ohio. I know this is a lot of useless info but here is where I'm stumped. My most local sporting store sells .32-.50 round balls and only FFG blackpowder "Old Eynesford" limit of 1 lb per person per day until supplies run out. I've read that FFG can't be used for anything larger than .50 cal. Secondly, there are 7 flintlocks for sale at my local store. 3 are .45 cal long rifles ranging in different lengths. 1 is a custom job in .577 for "enfield bullets" and the other 3 are .32 for small game, a 16g fowler and a 20g fowler. I don't really like the idea of buying a rifle online but am open to it I'd rather see and check the fit. Bottom line what does everyone think is better , will a .45 cal be good enough or should I buy one of the fowlers and try and find larger grain powder. They all fit me and hold amazing. I just want some opinions from those with experience and I guess this is a great place to start. If this post is in the wrong spot I apologize and if I bore you all with this post I apologize in advance. I thank everyone who responds with their experiences and opinions and all input on the topic will be appreciated greatly. Also anyone in Maryland on here? If so what have your experiences been like if you want to share them, what has worked for you when hunting deer or other game.

 

[rocullen]

I'm not one to suggest what you "want". I shoot 54.

I will say this...if you are serious about getting into this, I'd go buy some powder while it's available.
2f, 3f doesn't matter just a whole lot, but if you're leaning towards a big bore 58+ I'd be inclined to go 2f.
3f will work fine, just reduce the load a little bit(10%). Of course going flintlock, you can use the 3f to prime with if you have no 4f.

Others will chime in and correct any "misinformation" I may have spewed.

 

[cynthialee]

welcome aboard

ok....get the gun you want and can afford

maybe one of the guys you shoot with has a rifle or fowler they are willing to sell

fg, ffg, fffg are all acceptable powders (2 and 3 f are most appropriate in most guns) for just about every gun you will get, some powders work better for some guns, that is part of figuring out what is best

this is one of those hobbies where you just keep getting more stuff....so say goodbye to your wallet

 

[Murphy_Roberts]

I'm not one to suggest what you "want". I shoot 54.

I will say this...if you are serious about getting into this, I'd go buy some powder while it's available.
2f, 3f doesn't matter just a whole lot, but if you're leaning towards a big bore 58+ I'd be inclined to go 2f.
3f will work fine, just reduce the load a little bit(10%). Of course going flintlock, you can use the 3f to prime with if you have no 4f.

Others will chime in and correct any "misinformation" I may have spewed.

I'm going to go first thing tomorrow morning I called ahead of time to have them hold aside a 1lb for me as I can only buy one per day. I will get as much as I can just to be safe. I didn't know FFG could also be used to prime. Sounds like it will be the most useful powder.

 

[Murphy_Roberts]

welcome aboard

ok....get the gun you want and can afford

maybe one of the guys you shoot with has a rifle or fowler they are willing to sell

fg, ffg, fffg are all acceptable powders (2 and 3 f are most appropriate in most guns) for just about every gun you will get, some powders work better for some guns, that is part of figuring out what is best

this is one of those hobbies where you just keep getting more stuff....so say goodbye to your wallet

Yea I already went down the route of trying to buy one of their flintlocks but they weren't inclined to sell what they had and 8 of the guys already sold a bunch of their collection on gunbroker so that they could get money together to all pitch in to get a loan on some hunting property. I definitely have seen some things on YouTube and various gun sites where guys are buying $4,000 rifles and originals. I really don't want to spend more than $1000 for a rifle or smoothbore and I see a lot of flintlocks are between $700 and $2000. I know the guys on my crew have at minimum $15,000 invested in guns, clothing and period correct supplies to go camping with but I just want to get started and let my wallet receive a small wound.

 

[Whitworth]

I'm in Maryland but never heard of Moscow until now, I have a buddy who lives in Frostburg. You can't go wrong with a .45 or a .50 caliber.

 

[Murphy_Roberts]

I'm in Maryland but never heard of Moscow. You can't go wrong with a .45 or a .50 caliber.

Most haven't it is one of 3 small towns on Route 36 south east of Cumberland on the way to Westernport, MD on the WV. Moscow is roughly 18 miles SE of Cumberland and maybe 20 miles south of Frostburg. I'm in Alleghany County. The 3 towns are Barton, Moscow and Nikep. Post office considers Moscow part of Barton as of 2020 because it was easier for them to deliver mail when most staff were needed in Cumberland and Frostburg. That being said which is better in your honest opinion? Is there really a difference? I'm assuming .50 because it is larger. I do have some .45 rifles local to me though. I'm gonna try Frostburg next week there are 3 guns shops in the city and might be able to find something there.

 

[GoodRabbitPilgrim]

I have a pedersoli trade gun, its a great gun but you won't be shooting deer at 100 yards with it.

Also have two 50s and a 54. None of them make another other obsolete. I'll probably get a 58 at some stage too.

50 is the most versatile because of the plethora of options available for it these days.

 

[FPDoc]

Welcome to the forum.
I would recommend FFFg powder as useful from .32cal to at least .54/.58 cal if needed and it works well for the pan also. I would get some powder and bum or buy ball from your friends and have them let you handle and/or shoot their rifles and fowlers until you just flip out on one of them not just looking at the shiny bits but close your eyes and mount the weapon to see how it feels to you. See if it just feels like a part of you. I'd Take special note of their accoutrements (stuff) and then save your money until what you want or what you can live with shows up.

 

[hawkeye2]

A .45 is more than adequate for whitetails and .58 is overkill. A.50 or .54 would be nice too. Choosing a .45 to conserve powder is false economy as you can load any gun up or down and lighter loads are often the most accurate. The few cents saved per shot probably won't buy you a latte at the the years end. What's your major area of interest? Hunting, target shooting, historical reenactments? Choose a style that best suits your interests. Most folks usually go for a rifle up front but smoothbores can be fun and versatile. Sit on your money for a bit and keep an eye on the for sale listings here, I've seen some nice pieces for reasonable prices. It sounds like you fell in with a great bunch that should be able to guide you on your journey.

 

[cynthialee]

just get a Great Plains Rifle or a TC Hawken to start with
both are good entry guns that serve well for long time shooters and newbies alike they are good guns

you got a grand to spend? hold off, get a $500 gun to start with, that other $500 will get you a nice kit to go with the rifle, the gun will retain value if you chose to sell it

get a .50 or .54 is my advice due to availability of supplies

 

[SmoothboreMurph]

Hey all, just joined the forum today and I have many, many questions. Recently I became a member of the Maryland Forestry Service and all but 1 member on my 12 man crew is big into using Flintlocks ( that member is me). I went shooting with them a few times and fell in love. I was amazed by the flintlocks they had. It all seems so much more interesting than just plopping a brass chunk into a barrel and going bang. I asked them what flintlock I should start off with as I haven't a clue and this was the response I got. 3 of my crew members use .45cal rifles and said to go with them as there is a powder shortage right now and they use less powder. 2 of my crew members said to use .58 caliber as it kills more efficiently and renders .50 and .54 useless. 5 crew members use smooth barrel flintlocks ( I called them shotgun and was sternly reminded that they are actually "Fowlers". 3 use Pedersoli Trade Guns, 1 uses a Veteran Arms Fusil de chasse and the last uses an original fowler from CT which is longer than a telephone pole. Finally my Supervisor and Foreman both use .65 cal German rifles they bought at a show in Ohio. I know this is a lot of useless info but here is where I'm stumped. My most local sporting store sells .32-.50 round balls and only FFG blackpowder "Old Eynesford" limit of 1 lb per person per day until supplies run out. I've read that FFG can't be used for anything larger than .50 cal. Secondly, there are 7 flintlocks for sale at my local store. 3 are .45 cal long rifles ranging in different lengths. 1 is a custom job in .577 for "enfield bullets" and the other 3 are .32 for small game, a 16g fowler and a 20g fowler. I don't really like the idea of buying a rifle online but am open to it I'd rather see and check the fit. Bottom line what does everyone think is better , will a .45 cal be good enough or should I buy one of the fowlers and try and find larger grain powder. They all fit me and hold amazing. I just want some opinions from those with experience and I guess this is a great place to start. If this post is in the wrong spot I apologize and if I bore you all with this post I apologize in advance. I thank everyone who responds with their experiences and opinions and all input on the topic will be appreciated greatly. Also anyone in Maryland on here? If so what have your experiences been like if you want to share them, what has worked for you when hunting deer or other game.

Welcome to the Forum, we are getting a lot of newcomers from Maryland on here. I live on the Eastern Shore in a small town called Price in Queen Anne's Co. I purchased a Hopkins and Allen underhammer in .45cal back in the fall and I managed to take a deer with it in the October early firearms season. The gun is underhammer percussion but it did the job. It was a 60~65yrd shot behind the left shoulder on a doe weighing 78lbs dressed. I used a .440 ball .015" patch and 75grains of FFG powder and when she was hit she ran maybe 40 yards and fell. My rifle had a 24" barrel at the time which I think might have had something to do with not getting enough velocity to hit hard. I have since put my 31" barrel on it but haven't hunted with it yet. This year I purchased a .54 cal Pedersoli Mortimer which I took on with in the late season in December and it fell where it stood it was a buck which weighed in a 90lbs dressed and I had to drag it for just under a mile because my atv starter wouldn't work. That shot was .530 ball .015" patch and 100g FFG. On the smoothbore side my first flintlock was a Pedersoli Brown Bess .75 musket which has taken 3 deer and did require 8 months of practice to make a 4" group at 50 yards and a lot of load testing and money spent. The Bess takes a .735 ball .010" patch and 120g FFG powder making it less than ideal for someone like you who can't get a lot of powder. My advice to you is look at what you're game is going to be. Up your way you have Deer and Turkey I'm sure as well as Squirrels, rabbits and other small game. A smoothbore will be less accurate ( my longest shot was 68 yards with my Indian made Bess carbine and it wasn't clean I will admit and a followup was needed to put the buck down). You won't be taking shots more than 60yards with a smoothbore so if longer ranges are required then a rifle is an obvious choice. That being said those two fowlers you are looking at can be loaded with shot or ball so you can hunt anything you see fit as long as you conform to local laws. My friends father uses a 12g Fusil de Chasse and has hunted Deer, Turkey, Squirrels, Rabbits and Geese successfully with it. That .577 flintlock is definitely an oddball as .577 was a minie ball used in the P53, P56 and P61 enfield rifles which saw service in the British Army and both sides of our Civil War so an oddball for sure as flintlocks had been outdated by about 20-30 years when the P53 came out. Also to poke some fun I'm with Whitworth, I never knew Maryland had a Moscow. When I looked it up it is a isolated place I thought I was in the middle of nowhere in my town but you sir take the cake. Now I know Maryland has a Moscow to compliment its Berlin, London, Belfast and Dublin towns. I hope I've answered some of your questions I've only been into muzzleloading for the past 3 years so I'm not as knowledgeable as the other 99% of the forum I'm sure others will lead you on a better path.

 

[Murphy_Roberts]

I have a pedersoli trade gun, its a great gun but you won't be shooting deer at 100 yards with it.

Also have two 50s and a 54. None of them make another other obsolete. I'll probably get a 58 at some stage too.

50 is the most versatile because of the plethora of options available for it these days.

I assume the trade gun is popular, do you prefer it to your rifles ? Would it be a gun first flintlock in your opinion ?

 

[SDSmlf]

If you are getting serious about shooting muzzleloaders, suggest you purchase as much 2F and 3F blackpowder that you can. Now. Isn’t going to get any easier in the foreseeable future. As far as a rifle or smoothbore muzzleloader, suggest you purchase want you whatever you like…. But before you do that, suggest it is time for a little research on your part. Do you you want a hunting gun? A target gun? A gun for reenactment? Try as many different guns as you can. Good thing, I have found most folks shooting muzzleloaders want you yo shoot their gun. Each will explain why their’s is the best. Going to come down to what you like.

 

[Murphy_Roberts]

A .45 is more than adequate for whitetails and .58 is overkill. A.50 or .54 would be nice too. Choosing a .45 to conserve powder is false economy as you can load any gun up or down and lighter loads are often the most accurate. The few cents saved per shot probably won't buy you a latte at the the years end. What's your major area of interest? Hunting, target shooting, historical reenactments? Choose a style that best suits your interests. Most folks usually go for a rifle up front but smoothbores can be fun and versatile. Sit on your money for a bit and keep an eye on the for sale listings here, I've seen some nice pieces for reasonable prices. It sounds like you fell in with a great bunch that should be able to guide you on your journey.

Yea I mostly want to hunt with it but target shooting for fun would be another thing I would like to do. Thanks for the info on the powder saving that is good to know I was under the assumption that the larger than .45 would consume powder quickly.

 

[Murphy_Roberts]

just get a Great Plains Rifle or a TC Hawken to start with
both are good entry guns that serve well for long time shooters and newbies alike they are good guns

you got a grand to spend? hold off, get a $500 gun to start with, that other $500 will get you a nice kit to go with the rifle, the gun will retain value if you chose to sell it

get a .50 or .54 is my advice due to availability of supplies

There is shop that lists a T/C Renegade .50 flintlock in Frostburg but they want $1,300 for it as it I a 1982 World's Fair version.

 

[hawkeye2]

Whatever you choose know that there probably will be 2 loads for the gun. A light target load and a heavier hunting load. My wife and I shoot .58 caliber Springfields in N-SSA competition with 40 grains of 2f and a 315 grain mini.

 

[SDSmlf]

There is shop that lists a T/C Renegade .50 flintlock in Frostburg but they want $1,300 for it as it I a 1982 World's Fair version.

I have a TC Renegade, 50 or 54 caliber, flint or percussion, and I will call it anything you want, that I will have delivered to you for $1300. And I would feel guilty about it, at least for a little while. There are many better deals out there.

 

[Murphy_Roberts]

Welcome to the Forum, we are getting a lot of newcomers from Maryland on here. I live on the Eastern Shore in a small town called Price in Queen Anne's Co. I purchased a Hopkins and Allen underhammer in .45cal back in the fall and I managed to take a deer with it in the October early firearms season. The gun is underhammer percussion but it did the job. It was a 60~65yrd shot behind the left shoulder on a doe weighing 78lbs dressed. I used a .440 ball .015" patch and 75grains of FFG powder and when she was hit she ran maybe 40 yards and fell. My rifle had a 24" barrel at the time which I think might have had something to do with not getting enough velocity to hit hard. I have since put my 31" barrel on it but haven't hunted with it yet. This year I purchased a .54 cal Pedersoli Mortimer which I took on with in the late season in December and it fell where it stood it was a buck which weighed in a 90lbs dressed and I had to drag it for just under a mile because my atv starter wouldn't work. That shot was .530 ball .015" patch and 100g FFG. On the smoothbore side my first flintlock was a Pedersoli Brown Bess .75 musket which has taken 3 deer and did require 8 months of practice to make a 4" group at 50 yards and a lot of load testing and money spent. The Bess takes a .735 ball .010" patch and 120g FFG powder making it less than ideal for someone like you who can't get a lot of powder. My advice to you is look at what you're game is going to be. Up your way you have Deer and Turkey I'm sure as well as Squirrels, rabbits and other small game. A smoothbore will be less accurate ( my longest shot was 68 yards with my Indian made Bess carbine and it wasn't clean I will admit and a followup was needed to put the buck down). You won't be taking shots more than 60yards with a smoothbore so if longer ranges are required then a rifle is an obvious choice. That being said those two fowlers you are looking at can be loaded with shot or ball so you can hunt anything you see fit as long as you conform to local laws. My friends father uses a 12g Fusil de Chasse and has hunted Deer, Turkey, Squirrels, Rabbits and Geese successfully with it. That .577 flintlock is definitely an oddball as .577 was a minie ball used in the P53, P56 and P61 enfield rifles which saw service in the British Army and both sides of our Civil War so an oddball for sure as flintlocks had been outdated by about 20-30 years when the P53 came out. Also to poke some fun I'm with Whitworth, I never knew Maryland had a Moscow. When I looked it up it is a isolated place I thought I was in the middle of nowhere in my town but you sir take the cake. Now I know Maryland has a Moscow to compliment its Berlin, London, Belfast and Dublin towns. I hope I've answered some of your questions I've only been into muzzleloading for the past 3 years so I'm not as knowledgeable as the other 99% of the forum I'm sure others will lead you on a better path.

Yea most people say I'm telling a lie when I say what town I'm from, I used to live in Westernport but my parents moved up here when I graduated school and I'm still saving money to buy some land of my own. Property up here sure is nice though. My friends bought this old small farm just to the west of westernport on Aaron run which runs off the savage River. It looks like a lot of deer populate the area and I can't wait to get my first one. They were gonna invite me over to hunt primitive season in February but I need to get a gun of my own. Thanks for the input I guess .45 cal is nice if it has a longer barrel. I cant decide if I will buy a rifle first and then a smoothbore second or get a smoothbore right off the bat.

 

[Murphy_Roberts]

I have a TC Renegade, 50 or 54 caliber, flint or percussion, and I will call it anything you want, that I will have delivered to you for $1300. And I would feel guilty about it, at least for a little while. There are many better deals out there.

Yea I looked up pictures and old retail information on them and to be honest I don't think I would spend a penny over $500 for a Thompson center rifle. The world's fair version looks just like any other. I saw a few on gunbroker selling at $800 and $900 and I couldn't justify spending that on a gun that doesn't seem appealing. Yea I definitely will be up on the watchtower looking for better deals.