was there a "transitional Rifle"

[ekettenburg]

Hah! Kjell Swann. Blast from the past. I grew up very close to Washington's Crossing, they have (had? It's been years) some very cool stuff there including a fantastic wood box lehigh that I only vaguely remember, as at some point when I was in my early 20s it was no longer displayed.

Those mounts that Rich illustrates above are generally believed to be a perfect example of import mounts. There are quite a few smooth rifles that are clearly of German or Belgian origin that utilize the same type of furnishings, and then we see these same funishings (with some variation of course, but largely the same) utilized here primarily in the Bucks/NH county area, again close to Philly. The present assumption is that so-called German or Belgian "export" guns were being sold out of Philly along with sets of ready mountings, all imported from the same location. I've taken apart a couple guns with those mounts and never saw evidence of restocking on either of the pieces I dismantled. Ususally there are rammer pipes that probably were part of the set as the entry pipes carry engraving that goes right along with the rest of the suite.

 

[Artificer]

Gus, I recall going to a museum in the late 70s or 80s that IIRC was at Washington’s Crossing. There were muskets and rifles attributed to the Revolutionary War effort. On one the brass mounts were reddish in color. The curator commented that this was likely from recycled brass that needed zinc added. Something like that. It might be a real example of wartime brass shortage. He opined they were melting down candlesticks and such. He had an interesting name too. I’m sure Eric knows who I mean.

It MAY have even been a deliberate decision to cut back on the Zinc for war time production as well. This was done during the UnCivil War by some Southern manufacturers who made sword hooks, rings and even the double headed studs with more copper and it gave the reddish/rosey cast/colour to those brass parts.

Gus

 

[Artificer]

OK, more of my "not so easy to answer questions." Grin.

Caspar Wistar was importing rifles and rifle barrels in the then already preferred length of around 3 1/2 feet (42 inches) into Philadelphia in the 1740's. The rifles having come from the Palatine area of the Germanic States would of course been strongly Germanic.

But then these questions come to mind:

1. What gunsmith/s were already working on rifles in/around Philadelphia at that time and who would have used those barrels?

2. Would those rifles pretty much be copies of Germanic Rifles or did they already begin to show American colonial influences?

3. I don't think we have examples of rifles made/stocked here that early, do we?

Gus

 

[excess650]

Philadelphia was the port in Pennsylvania, so most goods going through Pennsylvania would have been shipped there.

Robert, Samuel,and Caleb Baker were already working in present day Lancaster county prior to 1720, and were granted permission to construct a rifle barrel boring mill by 1721. Samuel sold his share of the gunshop to Robert in 1719 Robert died 1728, but Caleb was in business until 1741.

John Baker was gunsmith between 1728 and 1750, Joshua Baker Sr was a gun barre maker (died 1754)

The Ferree family emigrates from France and arrived in current Lancaster circa 1712, and Philip(1687-1753) was believed to be a gunsmith

John Henry (gunsmith) dies 1747

Isaac LeFevere (gunsmith) dies 1751
Philip LeFevre 1710-1766 gunsmith

1740s is early, but we see Matthias Roesser in Lancaster in the late '30s to '40. Roesser is master to William Henry Sr.

These are the really early guys in Hickory Town aka Lancaster. I'm not aware of any guns signed or positively attributed to any of these.

Christopher Brietenherd arrives in Lancaster 1753 after having been a practicing gunsmith in Germany. I'm aware of at least 2 of his guns.

Jacob Dickert was born in 1740 in Germany, and apprenticed in the 1750s. Peter Gonter, Isaac Haines, and J P Beck were all born 1750-1751, so all of these well known early makers weren't active until closer to 1770.

Wolfgang Haga blew up his shop in Reading in 1752.

John Schreit is in Reading by 1758 and his 1761 signed & dated rifle is the earliest known as such.

 

[ekettenburg]

Johan Henrich Moll (Henry Mull) was from Wurttemburg and was working in Lancaster boro by 1740-1741 also, and Johannes Moll (later of Allentown) was married in Lancaster in 1738 and sometime prior to 1751-52 was working on a 50 acre tract in what became Rockland Twp Berks (originally part of Lancaster Co) right next to the Angstadt farm before he moved over to Allentown a decade later.

 

[excess650]

Some of my own ancestors were from Baden Wurttemburg and arrived in Philadelphia circa 1750. Unfortunately, none of them were gunsmiths, but what guns might they have brought with them, or purchased here before moving out into the frontier.

 

[rich pierce]

The question that pops into my head is what the gunsmiths were doing at the earliest dates. If we look at other crafts like furniture making, it seems clear that furniture and cabinet makers were making furniture and cabinets from the earliest days here in the colonies. I do not know about importation of furniture. I’m sure some furniture and cabinet makers also did some restoration, repair, and refinishing in addition to building things from “scratch” of their own design

A colonial gunsmith in the early years could be largely or partly occupied with gun repairs, particularly on the frontier. I don’t know the economics of imported guns versus “made here” guns, but Wistar apparently found he could import at a price that allowed him to make a profit selling here. Presumably he could not find gunsmiths here who could and would make him rifles at a similar price. In many cases trade goods were cheaper than goods could be made here. For example, most knives used in the colonies were imported.
No doubt guns (rifles in particular) were being made here “from scratch” because importation of locks, barrels, and furniture in quantities lend strong support, as do boring mills and so on. Yet despite Pennsylvania iron production and boring mills, the Christians Spring shop was importing barrels.
I guess I’m saying that the presence of gunsmiths does not always correlate 100% with “stocking up new rifles from new parts”.

 

[Artificer]

Philadelphia was the port in Pennsylvania, so most goods going through Pennsylvania would have been shipped there.

Robert, Samuel,and Caleb Baker were already working in present day Lancaster county prior to 1720, and were granted permission to construct a rifle barrel boring mill by 1721. Samuel sold his share of the gunshop to Robert in 1719 Robert died 1728, but Caleb was in business until 1741.

Thank you! I remembered the boring mill set up at that time, but lost the rest of the information two computers ago. Will save that in my files.

Gus

 

[Artificer]

The question that pops into my head is what the gunsmiths were doing at the earliest dates. If we look at other crafts like furniture making, it seems clear that furniture and cabinet makers were making furniture and cabinets from the earliest days here in the colonies. I do not know about importation of furniture. I’m sure some furniture and cabinet makers also did some restoration, repair, and refinishing in addition to building things from “scratch” of their own design

A colonial gunsmith in the early years could be largely or partly occupied with gun repairs, particularly on the frontier. I don’t know the economics of imported guns versus “made here” guns, but Wistar apparently found he could import at a price that allowed him to make a profit selling here. Presumably he could not find gunsmiths here who could and would make him rifles at a similar price. In many cases trade goods were cheaper than goods could be made here. For example, most knives used in the colonies were imported.
No doubt guns (rifles in particular) were being made here “from scratch” because importation of locks, barrels, and furniture in quantities lend strong support, as do boring mills and so on. Yet despite Pennsylvania iron production and boring mills, the Christians Spring shop was importing barrels.
I guess I’m saying that the presence of gunsmiths does not always correlate 100% with “stocking up new rifles from new parts”.

What I love about Caspar Wistar is the fact it took him little or no time to join the then great Colonial Tradition of SMUGGLING his goods to keep costs down.

At the time, there were taxes laid on some imports from England, but there was a HUGE added import tax on goods coming from other countries, including the German States and even though the British Kings George were themselves Hanoverian German. Additionally, if one was not a declared British Subject, they added even more import tax.

To get around those huge added import taxes, Caspar had his representatives pay a small amount of the voyage fee's of German immigrants to smuggle his goods in their luggage. Later on, Caspar became a British subject, but still continued to smuggle goods that way. It seems he never got caught before he stopped doing it.

Gus

 

[ekettenburg]

I guess I’m saying that the presence of gunsmiths does not always correlate 100% with “stocking up new rifles from new parts”.

Absolutely, I would say especially during the pre-War period. The Moravians in Bethlehem did not see fit to set up Albrecht with his own shop until the early 1760s. Likewise Andreas Betz had been working in the smithy in Bethabara for close to 10 years before Valentine Beck was sent down there and eventually set up with a proper gun shop in Salem. And even then, for example, Beck was also casting spoons and was at one point mentioned as a 'tin man.' Kind of hard to imagine anyone loaded with gun work having the time to cast spoons or engage in tinsmithing!

Despite going back into the late 1720s or 1730s, I found no advertisements in the PA Gazette for imported gun *mounts* or gun *furniture* until the 1750s, although there are certainly earlier advertisements for complete imported arms. Perhaps this is indicative of something.

 

[plmeek]

Caspar Wistar was importing rifles and rifle barrels in the then already preferred length of around 3 1/2 feet (42 inches) into Philadelphia in the 1740's.

The way I read this passage from Lienenmann's Moravian Gunmaking II, Caspar Wistar was importing rifles and rifle barrels as early as the 1730s:

The rifles having come from the Palatine area of the Germanic States would of course been strongly Germanic.

But then these questions come to mind:

2. Would those rifles pretty much be copies of Germanic Rifles or did they already begin to show American colonial influences?

This question is much harder to answer because of the difficulty in accurately dating these early rifles. Assuming the early colonial gun stockers were using imported German parts and the mounts of a rifle predetermine much of the architecture of the rifle, the colonial stocked rifles probably closely resembled Germanic rifles at least in architecture. The colonial stocker naturally had more freedom to decorate the rifle with whatever carving he wanted, though.

This rifle sold at auction in October 2019. If it is as it was represented to be, it shows how similar some German made guns were to colonial made guns of the period. Click on the title below to take you to the auction listing with description and more photos. The barrel length is given as 39-7/8".

FRENCH AND INDIAN WAR PERIOD GERMAN FLINTLOCK TRADE RIFLE

 

[ekettenburg]

That piece is very likely an excellent example of the type of pieces exported here prior to the Rev War. Another great example would be the so called "Marshall fowler" which is a classic German or Belgian export fowler which has descended down through the family of Edward Marshall along with his famous rifle. In that specific case, at least it has a fairly substantial provenance. HOWEVER: I do take some issue with the auction description and the obvious inference at an American connection via the assigned title of "trade rifle" in that there is absolutely nothing here to indicate this piece was destined for export to the colonies. To my mind, this title is a typical example of auction 'fluff.' Unlike the pieces often referred to as export fowlers or smooth rifles, this does not display a common form of hardware that just happens to have been found in some quantity on American-made pieces (the floral engraved stuff Rich illustrated above). Furthermore, there are many examples of somewhat provincial pieces such as this rifle which can be found easily just looking back through random Czerny's or Hermann Historica auction catalogs of the last 20-30 years, all still happily residing within Europe. Don;t underestimate the provincial European gunstocker! The fancy cosmopolitan pieces get all the press, but there are castles-worth of relatively plain, hard-used plainish hunting guns that never get any published glory.

Again, not looking to bust any chops and this rifle is definitely what we all imagine the stuff Wistar was importing probably looked like. I simply take issue with an overzealous auction descriptive title, sadly all too common with no documentation or provenance to back it up.

 

[Artificer]

Absolutely, I would say especially during the pre-War period. The Moravians in Bethlehem did not see fit to set up Albrecht with his own shop until the early 1760s. Likewise Andreas Betz had been working in the smithy in Bethabara for close to 10 years before Valentine Beck was sent down there and eventually set up with a proper gun shop in Salem. And even then, for example, Beck was also casting spoons and was at one point mentioned as a 'tin man.' Kind of hard to imagine anyone loaded with gun work having the time to cast spoons or engage in tinsmithing!

Despite going back into the late 1720s or 1730s, I found no advertisements in the PA Gazette for imported gun *mounts* or gun *furniture* until the 1750s, although there are certainly earlier advertisements for complete imported arms. Perhaps this is indicative of something.

FWIW, going through account books I've found of gunsmiths in VA from the 1750's through the 1770's, MOST of their "bread and butter work" comes outside even gun repair. They fixed everything from kitchen tools, pots and pans, and all sorts of such work as well as other blacksmith chores.

Gus

 

[excess650]

This rifle sold at auction in October 2019. If it is as it was represented to be, it shows how similar some German made guns were to colonial made guns of the period. Click on the title below to take you to the auction listing with description and more photos. The barrel length is given as 39-7/8".

FRENCH AND INDIAN WAR PERIOD GERMAN FLINTLOCK TRADE RIFLE
View attachment 89131
View attachment 89132

I find that gun incredibly elegant in its simplicty. The trigger guard, buttplate, and sideplate look pretty familiar.

Note that it is listed as a "rifle", but has no rear sight, no patchbox, and grooved breech and rear of the barrel top. The muzzle appears to have rifling and is very thin, so I'll bet its "straight rifled".

 

[plmeek]

I do take some issue with the auction description and the obvious inference at an American connection via the assigned title of "trade rifle" in that there is absolutely nothing here to indicate this piece was destined for export to the colonies. To my mind, this title is a typical example of auction 'fluff.'

... Furthermore, there are many examples of somewhat provincial pieces such as this rifle which can be found easily just looking back through random Czerny's or Hermann Historica auction catalogs of the last 20-30 years, all still happily residing within Europe.

I agree. I'm always skeptical of auction houses and their descriptions.

I posted it because I too thought it "very likely an excellent example of the type of pieces exported here prior to the Rev War." As well as to point out how similar it looks to what we think were early colonial rifles and as another example of longer barreled rifles made in the "old country" which disputes the theory of "transition rifles" being a Colonial innovation.

 

[Artificer]

Gents,

I'm soaking all of this in like a sponge. GREAT stuff.

So would an early rifle similar to the trade rifle also have come with a full octagon barrel?

Gus

 

[ekettenburg]

Yep, hope I was able to convey my agreement with that concept. Didn't want you to think I was busting on you!

The biggest myth which for some reason has yet to be dispelled, even here in 2021, is that German guns all were "short!"

There was a period a bit before and right after the first publication of RCA books, and into the late 1980s/early 1990s where there were a few guys who were bringing pieces like this over from Europe and 'Americanizing' them, then trying to pass them off as early "transitional" rifles. Not many, but there were a few floating around. Most seem to have been taken out of circulation by now but I did just see one recently and a friend sent me a picture of another. Then there was a recent auction with a couple more, one of which had a thoroughly ridiculous signature added.

 

[Artificer]

Would the cheek piece on the below rifle been typical for such an early rifle? Were other variations known to have been used?

Gus

 

[ekettenburg]

Sure. Just like we can see here amongst US made kentuckies, there were a wide variety of regional styles among German arms. Typically the further north you go, and the further away from the population centers, the more archaic they appear. One of the reasons the so-called "Brandenburg" guns held onto huge buttstocks with prominent fishbellies, large and very 'banana' shaped locks etc. Up into Scandinavia they were really behind the times in terms of stylistic 'advancement.' Heck the Swedes were held onto doglocks for infantry muskets almost into the 19th century!

 

[Artificer]

Sure. Just like we can see here amongst US made kentuckies, there were a wide variety of regional styles among German arms. Typically the further north you go, and the further away from the population centers, the more archaic they appear. One of the reasons the so-called "Brandenburg" guns held onto huge buttstocks with prominent fishbellies, large and very 'banana' shaped locks etc. Up into Scandinavia they were really behind the times in terms of stylistic 'advancement.' Heck the Swedes were held onto doglocks for infantry muskets almost into the 19th century!

Thank you Eric,

OK, going back to Caspar Wistar importing rifles from the Palatinate Region of Germany (Wiesbaden in the North down to Stuttgart in the South) are there known examples of trade or other rifles that could have been imported from that period and of which pictures are available?

Gus