Welders

[Col. Batguano]

I don't have one of these. For normal gun-type and home use, what kind do I need? I have one single 50 amp / 220 plug in my basement I can plug this in to.

How about an ox-acetalene rig? The building books say you need these too. Thus far I only have the el-cheapo Home Depot $40 unit that takes bottled Mapp Gas and Oxygen. I use the Home Depot bronze rods but somehow think I'm really doing myself (and my builds) a disservice by using this level of gear. They seem to come in handy for filling in holes that show up where they're not planned! Do I need a better unit than this?

 

[Black Hand]

To do what?

You can build dozens of guns and never need a welder....

 

[Col. Batguano]

Mainly for plugging holes or cracks that show up where they're not supposed to.

Example; last night I was drilling the tang bolt-trigger plate hole. Normal drilling spike thing like I always do. But, this time the bit wandered and missed the preferred place for an exit. Probably because the gun is long and heavy, and can wiggle or twist on the spike a little bit and you won't even know it. So I got out the Home Depot brazer, and plugged the hole and re-drilled it in the right place. I'll have a little bronze colored disk in the browning there when it's all done, but it's not THAT big of a deal, but if I could weld actual steel it'd be even less discolored.

 

[Black Hand]

Thread the hole, countersink a little on both sides, run in a piece of bolt, peen the ends and dress-off smooth. Unless pointed out, the repair is not evident. I've used this repair on lockplates and tangs.

 

[Birddog6]

You don't NEED it..... That is what a welding shop is for. Pay them $10 and get the hole filled.

But if you WANT one...... I use a Lincoln 170 wire welder with a bottle. It is 220 volt. I used to have a 120 model that was 110 volt & people kept borrowing it, so sold it & got the 220 & nobody borrows it. :hmm: They are not cheap, so I would say if you need it for other things, then get one. I suggest a name brand like Lincoln or Miller, so you can get parts later if needed.

Same as on a acetylene outfit, a small one will do what you are doing unless you want to heat & forge something or cut something thick. Then you need a larger outfit. I have 3 dif. ones for dif jobs, but if I was to have just One, choice is the large one as you can use small tips & regulate it down. Most guys just use a MAPP gas outfit for light work heating & silver soldering, like you are doing.

Keith Lisle

 

[Robby]

Your way over complicating things! :wink:
Robby

 

[Copperclad]

Hi
Once you get a wire welder and Oxy-Acetylene , you'll need to get a metal lathe and a mill also. :wink:

 

[fleener]

I just bought a used stick welder and torch set for 150 bucks
For what I need it for a good used set works jut fine

Fleener

 

[ChrisPer]

I b ought my son an Oxy-LP Gas set. It uses BBQ gas bottles as fuel, and halves the cylinder rental expense of oxy-acetylene.

Here it costs $150 per year in cylinder rental for the Oxy and another $150 for acetylene. For a torch I used maybe once a year and maybe not, when I had $50 a month pocket money that $300 per year in rental was not worth it.

 

[jdkerstetter]

You don't NEED it..... That is what a welding shop is for. Pay them $10 and get the hole filled.

I agree completely. I'll save the money a good electric welder cost and buy gun parts with it.

A gas set up for soldering, heat treating, forging, etc. is all I have. The occasional welding job doesn't warrent the cost of equipment.

I'll let the welders weld and I'll build guns. :wink: Enjoy, J.D.

 

[Bill Hall]

I also agree, but, if you do have a welding set-up, you're gonna find all kinds of gun building uses for it. Just little things mind you, nothing really important. You'll also find (dream up) all kinds of extra shop projects that involve welding.

I think the best welding set up for what we do would be a light duty wire feed. Takes the least amount of skill to master. Good for in-shop fabbed parts, for tacking together or full out welding. Need to build an area up? Get out the wire feed.

Then again, I haven't welded on anything gun realted in many years, so.... Bill

 

[Archie]

I don't know you or what experience you have with welders or the "hot wrench" but just by you asking that question tells me you might not have much knowledge of these tools.

An oxy-acetylene torch can come in handy for bending tangs and other steel parts to fit and plenty of stuff besides gun guilding. From cutting to heat-n-beat steel and freeing up rusted bolts and even basic heat treating if you know what your doing. Welders are wicked cool and very handy and can do a whole bunch of damage quicker than you can spit. Provided you know what your doing they are great tools. They can also burns skin like you have never been burned before and take the shed, garage and house in a nasty fire. What about your homeowners fire insurance coverage

 

[M. De Land]

I think an ox/acetylene is probably the most useful welder to a gun nut and then perhaps a 110 volt wire feed with gas bottle. I mostly use my torch for cutting and hard soldering. The MIG gets quite a bit of use and nothing approaches a TIG for clean inclusion free welds.
It's hard to imagine how many different gun related repairs and custom work can be effected with them.
I notice folks who have these tools and know how to use them have a whole different take on their importance than those who don't! :grin: MD

 

[mikemeteor]

I also agree, but, if you do have a welding set-up, you're gonna find all kinds of gun building uses for it. Just little things mind you, nothing really important. You'll also find (dream up) all kinds of extra shop projects that involve welding.

I think the best welding set up for what we do would be a light duty wire feed. Takes the least amount of skill to master. Good for in-shop fabbed parts, for tacking together or full out welding. Need to build an area up? Get out the wire feed.
Bill

+1.
i got a 115volt MIG buzzbox and love it.
like Keith said, get a name brand.
I got a Hobart 140 and all the parts are as close the nearest Tractor Supply.
Used it last night to weld an extension on a SMR buttplate return.
will also be welding up an extended breechplug tang with it.
less than $500 and reasonable learning curve.
IMHO the options it gives you are nice to have.
/mike

 

[matt denison]

"...I notice folks who have these tools and know how to use them have a whole different take on their importance than those who don't! MD

I agree. I don't know what I would do without the TIG welder. Couldn't survive without the Oxy-Acet. torch set up.

However I don't weld up holes in lock plates or tangs. I plug them like Black Hand suggested. It is 1/100th as much work and fuss to drill/tap and plug a hole than to clean, weld then dress it back along with the hardening and warping (yes, it does harden and warp) that happens with the high heat of welding.

 

[kaintuck]

Find a friend with a shop........then take donuts~
:haha:

I have very little use to braze stuff ever since I switched over to Dave Keck's parts~ his wax casts are great!

mistake repair is getting less and less.....and i DO have a buddy with a complete shop~ sooooo.....

 

[Vaino]

Have been building MLers since 1977 and have never needed a welder of any kind. I imagine a "professional gunsmith" would need a welder, but a hobby builder really doesn't.

A "professional" shop also probably has Bridgeports and other labor saving machines.....nice to have if a living is made from gunsmithing.

Use Mapp Gas for soldering, high temp silver soldering and brazing. Never needed more.

Of course....one "needs" whatever is felt to be necessary.....Fred

 

[M. De Land]

I think the mind set and build approach is different Fred when these tools are readily available. They allow more versatility and technique manipulation for the various tasks encountered as well as time saved.
The Old Dead Guys did plenty of forge welding when necessary but given the difficulty, changed their tactics better suited to the hand tools available to them.
Along with filing another lost art is the use of hand scraping to achieve smooth wood finish. This , I think, would be an example of technique change in the absence of sand paper in their era of time. MD

 

[Vaino]

As a former tool and diemaker for a number of years, am very familiar w/ all the machine tools. Outside of cutting bbl dovetails in a mill, drilling various holes in a drill press {which I do}, making bbl lugs and sights in a mill and a few other minor tasks, building LRs out of necessity is mainly hand work.If one doesn't make various screws, bolts and RR ferrules, little LR work would be done in a lathe.

An all around gun shop should have a lot of machine tools to succeed, seeing the gunsmith has to be able to make or repair whatever is wanted by the customer and do it at a profit.

My shop has a free standing drill press, a 12" disk sander, a 14" bandsaw and a bench grinder..... so, I'm not really building LRs as they did 200 years ago and have succumbed to the modern mindset, somewhat :grin: .......Fred

 

[wulf]

And then there are the routers...sure makes my
life easier and others are terrified of the mere
mention of their name.
Wulf