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What about ducks?

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happyhunter

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I do not hunt ducks yet. Someday... So, what shot do you use for ducks? I know lead is not legal. I read somewhere you should not use steel in a muzzleloader. What can you use? Does anyone here hunt duck with their smoothbore?

Thanks!!
 
You can use "NO-TOX" Bismuth shot which is safe on your barrel, but it is very expensive. :(
 
10 gauge said:
You can use "NO-TOX" Bismuth shot which is safe on your barrel, but it is very expensive. :(
Do you men to say it can be used without a protective shot cup?
Never seen any manufacturing or reloading data saying that was possible...may have overlooked it...can you help with a source, link, etc
 
EcoTungsten is pricey for sure...but...assuming its use is limited to waterfowl hunting, the cost of modern shotguns shells is as bad or worse.
And better than patern testing with bigh expensive modern shells, since E/T is a direct replacement for lead, you can actually do load development using the equivalent lead shot, then just run a couple test shots with E/T to ensure the pattern is the same.

I ordered some E/T to experiment with as I thought I would have an opportunity to try some geese on a local farm...was going to try an shoot a couple around a pond near some woods just as if I was turkey hunting, head shots with my turkey barrel...I guarantee the settlers didn't intentionally flush them to wing if they had a chance to shoot them on the ground. (and they'd have probably used a rifle)

EcoTungsten is advertised as a direct exact replacement for lead, safe even in old guns, no shot cup required, and to my pleasant surprise, #6 E/T patterned noticeably tighter than #6 hard magnum shot at 40yds.

The goose hunt didn't materialize but it was a good actual hands on learning experience.
 
The bismuth can also be used as a direct replacement for lead without damage to barrels. It is slightly lighter than lead by a couple of percentage points and was a little more brittle in the early runs that resulted in some of the pellets fracturing upon firing but this has been corrected by the addition of tin to the alloy. I have been using it since the mid 90's with good results. I still have about a full bottle left. They went out of production I heard because of the owner’s death and I don't know whether they have resumed or not.
 
Hunters bismuth claimsto have ingots and shot available, but try to order from them.....it is impossible: the don't return phone calls, answer emails, ect. I'm not sending that kind of money to a 'company' unless I can get some human contact. :cursing:
 
To bad the guy is impossible to get ahold of, I'd certainly be interested.
 
happyhunter said:
Could you use steel with a shot cup?
Yes, but its really sorry...you have to use 2 sizes larger to get the same weight for penetration, ie: #4s in place of #6s, but then your pellet count goes to hades...
 
10 gauge said:
http://www.huntersbismuth.com/ These people still have the Bismuth availible.
They don't sell loose shot to the general public...you'd have to buy loaded shotgun shells then cannabalize the shot out of them...extremely pricey
 
FWIW, if non-tox is required, I use Hevi-shot with plastic shotcups made for steel. Its heavier than lead, which works better with slower BP velocities. It ain't cheap, but it is available for reloading. 6's seem to work pretty well for pheasant and duck at the close ranges we shoot. Like any shotgunning you need to pattern test your loads to be sure of your effective range. Its not HC/PC but it keeps you legal.
 
I think eventuallybismuth shot for reloading will make an appearance here in the U.S....until that time, the only options for those who wish to do it the 'traditional' way, i.e. no plastic shotcups, will have to use econoshot and (possibly) ITX....both are expensive, but that's all that's available right now.
IMHO, people who shoot traditional muzzleloaders should stay away from both steel shot and tungsten loads. The reason for staying away from steel is that while you can push steel out of a muzzleloader, I don't think you can do it fast enough with BP or substitutes to be fast enough to kill cleanly accept at the closest ranges. As for hevishot: after reloading it a few times, all I can say is that modern plastic loads require a great deal of manupulation by the handloader in order to protect the barrel from pin holes in the thick, plastic wads. I have shot hevishot using published data from Ballistic products and have used teflon wrappers inside the plastic shot cups and buffers and have still had problems with the shot pushing through the wads.....I don't know how a muzzleloader can get a better result dropping the stuff just down a barrel and ramming an overshot wad on top of it....but to each his own.

As for Hunter's bismuth: if they don't intend to sell to the individual, then they need to quit marketing their products to individuals....notice how they sell they're product as being better for the gun, birds, ect. on their main page. :shake: I'm tired of every search I do trying to find new sources of bismuth ending up in this place. :barf:
 
happyhunter said:
Could you use steel with a shot cup?

Yep, the steel shot cup has greater capacity, is thicker and more rugged. I use them with steel shot in my .62 fusil de chasse as it is bore choke, if it was a restricted choke would not, other's mileage may vary.
 
As for Hunter's bismuth: if they don't intend to sell to the individual, then they need to quit marketing their products to individuals....notice how they sell they're product as being better for the gun, birds, ect. on their main page. I'm tired of every search I do trying to find new sources of bismuth ending up in this place.

My understanding is that the company in question is defunct, but their web page is still up. The Bismuth shot business has been complicated by the fact that one fellow was able to get a patent on it and then he died. His family hasn't done much with it but still holds the patent, hence Hunter's Bismuth trying to sell them as 'spherical pellets'. I think they got dinged by patent lawyers and quit. I hope one of these days that all the legal manure will get worked out. Bismuth has its downsides in modern guns (pellet deformation), and the emphasis among modern ammo manufacturers has moved on to other options. Unfortunately, the market of dummies like us who would sling shot and smoke at the same time is very small. That means no one wants to blow the $$ on the patent lawyers to get a small business going. Could be that we'll have to wait until the patent expires and those are usually good for something like 20 years.

Sean
 
The problem with steel is it has to be driven substantially faster than standard loads to be effective. My smokeless loads need to be doing 1450fps or better and require using large quantities of very slow burning powders to do it without running excess pressure. Not sure if you can get there with BP safely.
 
That may be true to some extent, but the ducks I bring back from over in the marsh are unavailable for comment. :wink:
 
If you look at the charts in Lyman's Shotshell Reloading Manual, the MV reported drops off dramatically in the first 20 yards. You don't have near all that velocity at even that short distance.

As long as BLack POwder hunters pick their shots and keep them under 30 yards( steel shot shooters should also adopt this limit) you are going to kill ducks and geese. But, until someone makes a lead substitute shot that can be shot out of soft steel barrels, and in choked tubes without damaging either the barrels or chokes, the days of taking ducks and geese out at 40+ yards are history. Yes, I have seen an occasional goose taken at longer ranges. But I have also seen steel shot bouncing off the wings and chest of canada geese at 35 yds.
 
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