What do these patches tell me?

[ravenousfishing]

Went to the range today with my 54cal GPR. Was happy with my group, 8 shots in 2-1/2" at 50yd, but something doesn't look right about the recovered patches. What are they telling me?.530 Hornaday RB, .015 TC prelubed patches, 80gr ffg, swabbed between shots. Rifle has about 75 shots through it. Shouldn't there be more defined marks from the lands, or doesn't it matter?

 

[longfowler]

actually, they look pretty good, I wish some of mine came out this nice...upper right and lower left have some burn thru, maybe needs more lube. other than that, a 2-1/2 in group of 8 at that range is excellent!!

 

[Semisane]

They look fine to me. That's what the patches look like out of my .54 GP with 95 grains FFg.

When I use a Wonder Wad, the patches look like they haven't been fired except for the fraying around the edges.

 

[Walks with fire]

There looks to be some burn through on several of them; just a small piece on one side. Could be a sharp land cutting it a bit at loading also. Put a Wonder wad over the powder and I bet your groups will shrink. Might try a few thousands thicker patch and a bit more lube as well. A Wonder Wad works real well in mine but my patches look a lot worse than that if I don't use one.

A 2 1/2" group @ 50 isn't bad at all. If your bore seal is good you might be able to get that @ 100 yards from the bench.

 

[bingo1952]

Looks more like the lands are cutting them rather than a big problem with burn-through to me. The frayed edge toward the powder charge is not darkened from the heat. A sharp crown can also cut them (makes a case for coning?) when they are started in the muzzle. All in all they do not look too bad at all. :thumbsup:

 

[roundball]

Looks like a couple may have cut at the muzzle, the ends of the lands may still be sharp...a new GM .58cal I got was worse than that but after a couple hundred shots it settled right down...

 

[bwhoffman]

Those look pretty good for 75 shots out of the barrel!

I dont think the barrel is "broke in" quite yet.
You can run some oiled 3 or 4/0 steel wool or a piece of oiles scotchbrite pad up and down several strokes and tame down any sharp edges.

 

[jtmattison]

They look pretty good to me. I'd lap the bore a little to stop the cutting but that's it.

HD

 

[ameling]

They look OK to me. I've seen many that were worse.

Try dropping you powder charge. 80 grains is more than enough for a 54. Try some shots in the 60 to 70 grain range.

My 54 with a Sharon barrel loved 70 grains of 2F, .526 ball with pillow ticking patch. And that charge will do everything required of it for the normal person - if they shoot right and at reasonable distances. It will drop deer at 50 to 75 yards most every time if you place your shot right.

Just my humble thoughts to share. Take them as such.

Mikey - yee ol' grumpy German blacksmith out in the Hinterlands

 

[paulvallandigham]

Those prelubes are almost too small to use in that .54. If you don't center the patch exactly, you get those burned or torn edges. Check the crown for sharp edges. The fact that all the patches don't show the same tearing at the edge of the patch suggests that the bore is close to being broken in. Do try the OP wads, either Wonder wads, which I find expensive for my pocketbook, or Circle Fly OP Wads, that are about 1/8" thick. See TOTW for the wads. I also suggest you try using ticking for patches, lube strips at home, and then cut them at the muzzle with a patch knife, to see if you don't see an improvement in your groups.

Check out Dutch Schoultz's Site, Black Powder Rifle Accuracy System,
http://www.blackpowderrifleaccuracy.com/

and order his system. Its the best $15.00 you can spend to learn how to read patches, and improve accuracy without the benefit of a chronograph.

 

[nchawkeye]

Those patches look like what my flinter was doing last summer...I went to WalMart and bought a yard of cotton ticking, mixed up a batch of Stumpy's lube and started cutting at the muzzle, my problem went away...Groups were about the same as well, now the gun shoots as well as I can hold...

I really don't care for the pre cut and lubed patches...

btw...I also tried an over powder wad and that fixed the patch problem, but I realized that I was taking another step to stop a problem that really wasn't there if the proper patch, lube and ball combination were used...

 

[ravenousfishing]

Thanks for all the replies. Every time I go to the range I have another question and this is definitly the place to get them answered. I would agree that the patches seem to be cut rather than burned. After looking closely at the muzzle, a couple of the lands appear to be sharper at the lands than the others. What is the best way to secure the steel wool or scotchbrite to the ram rod for lapping the barrel, especially the crown?
I also agree that the patches may be a little small, but I was trying to be lazy by using pre-lubed patches to begin with. Gotta admit, they are convienient.

 

[bwhoffman]

I ran mine on an undersized jag (.40 jag in my .50) I used the scotchbrite pad, a semi used one, and used a good dose of olive oil on mine, went about 50 up and downs.
If it comes off, I always have a patch worm to get ot back.

this stuff can be aggressive, so lots of light strokes versus any real hard binding rubs!

then wash and oil as usual.

 

[Dphar]

Went to the range today with my 54cal GPR. Was happy with my group, 8 shots in 2-1/2" at 50yd, but something doesn't look right about the recovered patches. What are they telling me?.530 Hornaday RB, .015 TC prelubed patches, 80gr ffg, swabbed between shots. Rifle has about 75 shots through it. Shouldn't there be more defined marks from the lands, or doesn't it matter?

If its a true 54 the patches are likely too thin for a 530 ball.
I would try some heavy pillow ticking. .018 maybe thicker.
The damage might also be from a crown that is too sharp.

Dan

 

[Dphar]

Thanks for all the replies. Every time I go to the range I have another question and this is definitly the place to get them answered. I would agree that the patches seem to be cut rather than burned. After looking closely at the muzzle, a couple of the lands appear to be sharper at the lands than the others. What is the best way to secure the steel wool or scotchbrite to the ram rod for lapping the barrel, especially the crown?
I also agree that the patches may be a little small, but I was trying to be lazy by using pre-lubed patches to begin with. Gotta admit, they are convienient.

Steel wool is not the answer for the crown if its more than a simple burr. Get a large counter sink and carefully wrap the point in 600 grit wet or dry paper then hand polish the crown with it turning the counter sink BACKWARDS. Double stick carpet tape might help in getting the 600 on the counter sink. If you can you can uniformly point large dowel for the same purpose. Or a large flat head screw and valve lapping compound will work as well or push the screw through a hole in 600 grit with some DS tape to secure it. You can epoxy the head to a rod and use this as a "handle". Brass screw might be best.

Dan

 

[rabbit03]

Tell me that your balls are too small perhaps but for sure the patching looks too thin.

I shoot mostly competition and depending on what you need for accuracy is up to your needs and wants I suppose.

Any rifle should have the ability of achieving same hole or ragged hole groups from the bench at 50 yards. With that said, I would suggest as others have above and that is to smooth the muzzle area of the rough sharp edges so it won't cut the patching and then perhaps jump up to a 535 ball with tighter woven cotton material.

I am shooting 575 with my Big 58 Hawken and using the .020 material (plain or teflon coated) and anywhere between 70-120 grains of 2ffg and lately 3ffg and there is no burn through on the patches and the accuracy is incredible.

Good luck

rabbit03

 

[410-er]

I would scrub the bore with 0000 steel wool and oil.Should get 1 1/2" at 50 yds.Would go thicker with the patch say .020.My 54 GPR likes a .535 ball and a .020 patch.Is it tight?Yea but so are the groups.All but same hole.

 

[ravenousfishing]

As far as group size is concerned, I would say the rifle is probably doing its part, the shooter :shake: Next time out I will try thicker patches and the box of .535 balls I have. Still working on the fundamentals. Baby-steps.

 

[bwhoffman]

Still working on the fundamentals. Baby-steps.

Perfect attitude!

success to you!

 

[xxgrampa]

greetings rav fish,

if you decide to go the scotch brite route. an easy way to do it is to cut a piece twice the bore diameter, charge the gun, use an over powder wad, push the scotch brite on top of the wad then load the prb. one or two shots like that and the burrs, if you had any will be gone..

..ttfn..grampa..