I'm just kind of curious after looking in my TC manual on suggested loads for my 50 cal.Based on any studies or experiences, what would be sufficient energy to cleanly kill deer sized game, and what do you feel would be optimal energy for those marginal hits that do occur on occasion?
-
Friends, our 2nd Amendment rights are always under attack and the NRA has been a constant for decades in helping fight that fight.
We have partnered with the NRA to offer you a discount on membership and Muzzleloading Forum gets a small percentage too of each membership, so you are supporting both the NRA and us.
Use this link to sign up please; https://membership.nra.org/recruiters/join/XR045103
What Muzzle velocity and lbs of energy?
- Thread starter Wink
- Start date
Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:
Wink said:
For big game hunting under various field conditions, taking shots at large animals, at a variety of angles, at unknown distances, I prefer to use max/near-max powder charges at the top of the charts for my round ball loads.
I use the 50-70grn target loads at the bottom of the charts for exactly that, plinking targets and cans at the range.
To me it's simple, like an old saying...better to have more than you need and not need it, than to need more and not have it
:thumbsup:
Hard to say. I once calculated my bow throws about 45 ft pounds of energy with the arrows I use, yet it kills as well as a muzzleloader or slug shotgun out to 30 yards or so.
If you're punching a hole in one side of an animal and out the other through a vital organ in the middle you have enough energy.
We are used to reading tables for jacketed bullets at relatively high speed that have to expand for killing performance. A .490 or .530 round ball is already a large "mushroom" viewed front on. I would take a W.A. guess and say the range at which you hold 400 ft lbs of energy with a ball of .490" or larger is as far as you should attempt a deer sized target; and that may be stretching it. A LOT depends on shot placement. With modern bullets that would be 1,000 or 1,200 ft lbs or so.
"Optimal energy for marginal hits"? Darned if I know. You would need a HEAT round from a 120mm tube to take out a good buck cleanly with a rear left hoof hit. :hmm: Might not even be good enough for a tail hit with that.
Seriously, energy can't make up for poor hits. You cannot drive a round lead ball fast enough to impart a killing shock wave through soft tissue (i.e. "knock 'em down" with a gut shot). Round balls kill by hemmorage, just like a bow, or by snapping bones to disable them long enough for hemmorage to work. Spine & brain shots, of course, drop 'em flat. Better to go slower and hit what your're aiming for. In realistic terma, I like at least 80 gr FFg in either a .50 or .54 for shots out to 75 yards on deer. If I expected to need much farther I'd load hotter or move up in size. I use a .54 with 84 gr FFFg in my flintlock and that is plenty for whitetail where I am comfortable using the open sights.
If you're punching a hole in one side of an animal and out the other through a vital organ in the middle you have enough energy.
We are used to reading tables for jacketed bullets at relatively high speed that have to expand for killing performance. A .490 or .530 round ball is already a large "mushroom" viewed front on. I would take a W.A. guess and say the range at which you hold 400 ft lbs of energy with a ball of .490" or larger is as far as you should attempt a deer sized target; and that may be stretching it. A LOT depends on shot placement. With modern bullets that would be 1,000 or 1,200 ft lbs or so.
"Optimal energy for marginal hits"? Darned if I know. You would need a HEAT round from a 120mm tube to take out a good buck cleanly with a rear left hoof hit. :hmm: Might not even be good enough for a tail hit with that.
Seriously, energy can't make up for poor hits. You cannot drive a round lead ball fast enough to impart a killing shock wave through soft tissue (i.e. "knock 'em down" with a gut shot). Round balls kill by hemmorage, just like a bow, or by snapping bones to disable them long enough for hemmorage to work. Spine & brain shots, of course, drop 'em flat. Better to go slower and hit what your're aiming for. In realistic terma, I like at least 80 gr FFg in either a .50 or .54 for shots out to 75 yards on deer. If I expected to need much farther I'd load hotter or move up in size. I use a .54 with 84 gr FFFg in my flintlock and that is plenty for whitetail where I am comfortable using the open sights.
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2004
- Messages
- 14,767
- Reaction score
- 319
To help elaborate on what Stumpkiller is saying, I've shot lots of deer with hard-cast bullets from revolvers. Most were either .429 or .452 diamter and weighed 240-255 grains. Heavier per diameter than a round ball and flat nosed, but non-expanding. Same size hole in and out, but lots of penetration. There was a range of cartridges involved and muzzle-velocities ranging from about 700fps to 1500fps.
In my experience you generally couldn't tell the difference between velocties on impact unless the range stretched. But starting at 700 fps, I had no qualms and no problems out to 50 yards.
WHERE you hit is such a big part of success that I know of no reliable measure of velocity/energy for any species. Just kind of a general rule of thumb that bigger animals require more weight/velocity/bullet strength to reach a vital than a smaller animal, and marginal hits require more of the same to slow an animal enough for a followup shot or to shorten a tracking job.
I'd much rather have a clean shot with a 50 grain load than a marginal shot with a 150 grain load. I'm a good tracker, but often conditions put a little too much "sport" into that enterprise.
Bring the best out in your gun by searching for the best accuracy, and bring the best out in yourself with practice. But if you are like too many other hunters these days, if something goes wrong you are going to be blaming your load rather than lookin in the mirror.
In my experience you generally couldn't tell the difference between velocties on impact unless the range stretched. But starting at 700 fps, I had no qualms and no problems out to 50 yards.
WHERE you hit is such a big part of success that I know of no reliable measure of velocity/energy for any species. Just kind of a general rule of thumb that bigger animals require more weight/velocity/bullet strength to reach a vital than a smaller animal, and marginal hits require more of the same to slow an animal enough for a followup shot or to shorten a tracking job.
I'd much rather have a clean shot with a 50 grain load than a marginal shot with a 150 grain load. I'm a good tracker, but often conditions put a little too much "sport" into that enterprise.
Bring the best out in your gun by searching for the best accuracy, and bring the best out in yourself with practice. But if you are like too many other hunters these days, if something goes wrong you are going to be blaming your load rather than lookin in the mirror.
Hi Wink!
I use a charge of 75 grs WANO PP
(FFg) in my .50 Deerhunter. Until now I brought 3 roes down. How it happened you can read in my last post "Winterroe". When skinning the roe I found that the ball went in on the right side behind the diaphragm, passed through the boilerroom, the ribs and the shoulder blade, and then went along under the skin to the neck, broke the roes neck and got stuck in the neck.This was at a distance of 40 m. The ball has a measured muzzlevel. of about 1600 ft/s. The energy at 50m is at about 750 ftlps/1200 J.A roe has a weight fielddressed of about 30-35 pds.
Regards
Kirrmeister
I use a charge of 75 grs WANO PP
(FFg) in my .50 Deerhunter. Until now I brought 3 roes down. How it happened you can read in my last post "Winterroe". When skinning the roe I found that the ball went in on the right side behind the diaphragm, passed through the boilerroom, the ribs and the shoulder blade, and then went along under the skin to the neck, broke the roes neck and got stuck in the neck.This was at a distance of 40 m. The ball has a measured muzzlevel. of about 1600 ft/s. The energy at 50m is at about 750 ftlps/1200 J.A roe has a weight fielddressed of about 30-35 pds.
Regards
Kirrmeister
Similar threads
