Hi. I just got my Pedersoli Rocky Mountain Hawken in 54 caliber. One manual says to use .535 balls with .010 patches, and another says to use .530 balls with .015 patches. What are your recommendations? I need to put in an order for balls. Thanks much.
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what size ball to use in rocky mountain hawken
- Thread starter Barrows
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WV MZL HUNTER
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In my 54 GM Barrel I use 530 rb with a 18th patch and it does very well.
longcruise
70 Cal.
Order both sizes and load up with four or five different selections of patch material from whatever sources you can find it at and head to the range. By the time you shoot those 200 balls with different variations in patch material you'll have a pretty good idea of what it likes best.
Generally, and this is just my opinion, the tightest patch/ball combo you can load under the shooting conditions you are in (range, field, etc) is the best way to go.
Generally, and this is just my opinion, the tightest patch/ball combo you can load under the shooting conditions you are in (range, field, etc) is the best way to go.
Ive been using Hornady .530 balls in my Rocky Mountain Hawken with red or blue stripe pillow ticking from Joann fabric. I believe that cloth is about .018.
Snug but mangeable loading and very very good accuracy with either Goex FFG or Kik FFG. It will put em in one big ragged hole from the bench at 50 yards.
Snug but mangeable loading and very very good accuracy with either Goex FFG or Kik FFG. It will put em in one big ragged hole from the bench at 50 yards.
I agree that it is a good idea to buy both the .530 and the .535 diameter balls and several different thicknesses of patches.
The thing to remember about patch material is it must be either cotton or linen.
Any material with a man made material like polyester, nylon or rayon, even if mixed in with cotton will melt when the charge is fired. That can lead to some horrible groups and a difficult time cleaning the bore.
As was mentioned, usually a tight ball/patch gives very good accuracy but not always.
Some guns like a looser combination and they are much easier to load.
For a powder load I would start with about 55 grains and move up in 5 grain increments after shooting a 5 shot group.
Write the ball size/ patch size and powder load on each target so you will have a record of what is happening as you change the powder load or ball size.
Have fun.
The thing to remember about patch material is it must be either cotton or linen.
Any material with a man made material like polyester, nylon or rayon, even if mixed in with cotton will melt when the charge is fired. That can lead to some horrible groups and a difficult time cleaning the bore.
As was mentioned, usually a tight ball/patch gives very good accuracy but not always.
Some guns like a looser combination and they are much easier to load.
For a powder load I would start with about 55 grains and move up in 5 grain increments after shooting a 5 shot group.
Write the ball size/ patch size and powder load on each target so you will have a record of what is happening as you change the powder load or ball size.
Have fun.
Barrows said:
Marmot slayer said it best, the tightest ball and patch combo without blowing the patch generally works best. You will have to see what works for you. My GM .54 works best with .535 ball and .018 patch. The manuals you get with new guns just give you a place to start. Most likely you will have to make a slight adjustment here or there. Good luck. :thumbsup:
I also just obtained a Pedersoli Rocky Mountain Hawken in .54 caliber. It is beautiful piece of work with that maple stock!
I shot this rifle for the first time last weekend with a buddy who has had his (same rifle) for several months. He had a stuck ball when he first tried to load a .530" ball with a 0.015" patch early on in his experience with this rifle. He then reverted to the .530" ball with a 0.010" patch. He has probably run 50 - 60 shots through his rifle with that combo. I suggested that his initial experience of sticking the ball/patch may have been due to the "newness" of the barrel and the sharp edges on the rifling, and that after a "break-in" period he may want to switch to the .530" ball / 0.015" patch combination. He did so, and the improvement in his group size at 100 yards was dramatic!
Then being an idiot myself, I took my own advice and tried the .530" / 0.015" combination in my too new Hawken after only running about 10 rounds of .530" / 0.010" shots through it. I stuck the ball 2/3 down the barrel. Now I will shoot the 0.530" / 0.010" combination for another 30-40 rounds, then switch to a 0.535" / 0.010" combination before working my way to the .0530 / 0.015" load.
Good Luck and Enjoy!
TXnorton
I shot this rifle for the first time last weekend with a buddy who has had his (same rifle) for several months. He had a stuck ball when he first tried to load a .530" ball with a 0.015" patch early on in his experience with this rifle. He then reverted to the .530" ball with a 0.010" patch. He has probably run 50 - 60 shots through his rifle with that combo. I suggested that his initial experience of sticking the ball/patch may have been due to the "newness" of the barrel and the sharp edges on the rifling, and that after a "break-in" period he may want to switch to the .530" ball / 0.015" patch combination. He did so, and the improvement in his group size at 100 yards was dramatic!
Then being an idiot myself, I took my own advice and tried the .530" / 0.015" combination in my too new Hawken after only running about 10 rounds of .530" / 0.010" shots through it. I stuck the ball 2/3 down the barrel. Now I will shoot the 0.530" / 0.010" combination for another 30-40 rounds, then switch to a 0.535" / 0.010" combination before working my way to the .0530 / 0.015" load.
Good Luck and Enjoy!
TXnorton
paulvallandigham
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You really need to actually measure the bore diameter, and groove diameter of any new gun. It should be fairly obvious, after reading the posts above, that without knowing the actual diameter of your barrel, to the thousandths of an inch, you are going to waste a lot of money on the wrong size balls and the wrong size patches.
On a large caliber PRB, I do NOT recommend using a patch with a thickness of less than .015, simply because the powder charges normally use will be burning or tearing the patches if you use anything thinner. The material just cannot hold enough lube in it to act as its own firewall!
I you choose to use a .010" patch, then at least used a filler, like corn meal, or an OP wad between the powder and the PRB, to act as a firewall. Most of the Pedersoli barrels come with fairly deep grooves. The purpose of any patch is to fill that groove so that you don't get hot gases blowling by the patch, cutting it, and cutting the soft lead ball. A cut ball is not going to fly true, and accuracy suffers.
If you are new to shooting Black Powder, it is important that you FIND, EXAMINE, and READ every spent patch you fire from your gun as you "break it in". If you don't know how to read patches, I recommend you contact Dutch Schoultz, and buy his Black Powder Rifle Accuracy System. Its only $15.00, but it will teach and show you how to read those patches to find out what is going on inside your barrel.
http://www.blackpowderrifleaccuracy.com/
Perhaps the most common load combination being used by ALL .54 caliber rifle shooters, who use a PRB, is a ball diameter of .530" and a patch of between .015-.018" thick.
Target shooters tend to go to a .535" diameter ball, or even up to a .540" diameter ball, and use a teflon coated patch. They expect to, and do hammer the balls into the barrel at the muzzle using a mallet.
There are some hunters who use even smaller diameter balls- as small as .520" --- With a .020", or .024" thick patch- usually denim-- to make it much easier to load their gun faster for follow up shots.
You do not need heavy loads for " breaking in " any rifle. For your gun, shoot at 25 yds, and use a 50 grain charge of FFg Black Powder. Any polishing of the edges of the lands occurs as the material is pressed against it by the expanded RB when the gun is fired. It doesn't require the ball to be traveling out the barrel at 1800 fps!
While you are breaking in the barrel, use the time to get use to its balance, weight, trigger pull, and sights. 200 rds. through the barrel will be about minimum to break it in, and by that time you should be able to hold the gun much better for good off-hand shooting.
Do find a replacement nipple for that gun ASAP, as the factory nipples are notorious for Not standing up to wear. And, buy a range rod to use to clean and load that gun. Save the stick that came with it for use in the field. Pin those ferrules that come on the factory stick(ramrod) and also check the wood for grain run-out. If it shows run-out, then look for a replacement hickory rod without run-out. Run out is where these sticks break, and injure shooters.
:hatsoff:
On a large caliber PRB, I do NOT recommend using a patch with a thickness of less than .015, simply because the powder charges normally use will be burning or tearing the patches if you use anything thinner. The material just cannot hold enough lube in it to act as its own firewall!
I you choose to use a .010" patch, then at least used a filler, like corn meal, or an OP wad between the powder and the PRB, to act as a firewall. Most of the Pedersoli barrels come with fairly deep grooves. The purpose of any patch is to fill that groove so that you don't get hot gases blowling by the patch, cutting it, and cutting the soft lead ball. A cut ball is not going to fly true, and accuracy suffers.
If you are new to shooting Black Powder, it is important that you FIND, EXAMINE, and READ every spent patch you fire from your gun as you "break it in". If you don't know how to read patches, I recommend you contact Dutch Schoultz, and buy his Black Powder Rifle Accuracy System. Its only $15.00, but it will teach and show you how to read those patches to find out what is going on inside your barrel.
http://www.blackpowderrifleaccuracy.com/
Perhaps the most common load combination being used by ALL .54 caliber rifle shooters, who use a PRB, is a ball diameter of .530" and a patch of between .015-.018" thick.
Target shooters tend to go to a .535" diameter ball, or even up to a .540" diameter ball, and use a teflon coated patch. They expect to, and do hammer the balls into the barrel at the muzzle using a mallet.
There are some hunters who use even smaller diameter balls- as small as .520" --- With a .020", or .024" thick patch- usually denim-- to make it much easier to load their gun faster for follow up shots.
You do not need heavy loads for " breaking in " any rifle. For your gun, shoot at 25 yds, and use a 50 grain charge of FFg Black Powder. Any polishing of the edges of the lands occurs as the material is pressed against it by the expanded RB when the gun is fired. It doesn't require the ball to be traveling out the barrel at 1800 fps!
While you are breaking in the barrel, use the time to get use to its balance, weight, trigger pull, and sights. 200 rds. through the barrel will be about minimum to break it in, and by that time you should be able to hold the gun much better for good off-hand shooting.
Do find a replacement nipple for that gun ASAP, as the factory nipples are notorious for Not standing up to wear. And, buy a range rod to use to clean and load that gun. Save the stick that came with it for use in the field. Pin those ferrules that come on the factory stick(ramrod) and also check the wood for grain run-out. If it shows run-out, then look for a replacement hickory rod without run-out. Run out is where these sticks break, and injure shooters.
:hatsoff:
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Pretty much what Paul said! I've never been able to keep .010" patches in one piece, in fact I consider .015" material to be pretty durn thin, I like .018" as a minimum and have used material as thick as .034".
Getting a ball stuck is not really about the ball/patch fit or bore condition but about inexperience. When I first got into muzzleloaders I would sometimes stick a ball but that hasn't happened now in so long I don't remember when it last occurred. It's just a point on the learning curve which you will pass by in time.
I really would like to know the bore and groove specs, it does indeed make a difference. As a general rule of thumb, shallow grooves, .005-.010", will do best with a larger ball and thinner patch. Deep grooves, .010-.018", need a thicker patch to fill the grooves and that may require a smaller ball. I doubt your barrel has grooves deeper than .008" since that is about the maximum depth for broached rifling, about .006" for button rifling, anything deeper has to be single point cut rifling which is more time consuming and therefore more expensive. It would be good to know exactly what you have.
Good luck and good shooting! :thumbsup:
Getting a ball stuck is not really about the ball/patch fit or bore condition but about inexperience. When I first got into muzzleloaders I would sometimes stick a ball but that hasn't happened now in so long I don't remember when it last occurred. It's just a point on the learning curve which you will pass by in time.
I really would like to know the bore and groove specs, it does indeed make a difference. As a general rule of thumb, shallow grooves, .005-.010", will do best with a larger ball and thinner patch. Deep grooves, .010-.018", need a thicker patch to fill the grooves and that may require a smaller ball. I doubt your barrel has grooves deeper than .008" since that is about the maximum depth for broached rifling, about .006" for button rifling, anything deeper has to be single point cut rifling which is more time consuming and therefore more expensive. It would be good to know exactly what you have.
Good luck and good shooting! :thumbsup:
Hi. I have about 30 years experience with 50 calibers, but have never shot a 54, hence me having no clue what to shoot there. You mention the factory nipples are no good. What happens to them? What nipple is a good replacement? I can't find the thread size listed for those. Thanks again to everyone for their suggestions. I love this forum!
hanshi
Cannon
Barrows said:
I have owned a .54 for a number of years and find it turns in 1" groups for 5 shots at 60 yards with .530 ball and blue pillow ticking patches. The ticking measures .018 when measured with calipers but I've been told you should subtract about .003 from that figure as opposed to using a micrometer. That would mean the ticking is closer to .015. I get good results with it and no burned patches. An over powder wad will probably help accuracy and insure no burn through. Plain toilet paper works just fine. Wash the patch material before you use it, though.
You need to give some thought to the lube you use. Crisco is very good, cheap and not as messy as liquid oils. I prefer water based patch lubes if the load won't be in the barrel very long. The over powder wad keeps lube off the powder, too. Check DGW, Cabelas, Graffs, TOW, etc. for replacement nipples.
Russ T Frizzen
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The only way I've ever kept .010" patches in one piece is with lots of lube and an over powder wad. But there's no point in it. A thicker patch with the .530" ball is a much better way to go. I've been using antique Irish linen that is just under .018" in this rifle lately. Unlike silk, I don't get forty yards more, but it's nice stuff!Lube well but not overdone. If the rifle is going to be loaded and carried for a while as when hunting I usually seat an overpowder wad on the powder to keep the lube from migrating into the charge. This is probably more a valid concern in warm weather but it doesn't hurt anything anyway. 90 grains of FFg is a sweet load for target work and hunting.
paulvallandigham
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If you check under Accessories, we have several recent reports of percussion nipples made overseas breaking off, or burning out quickly. Replace the nipple with a "Hot Shot" or "Spitfire " nipple and you are good to go for years of shooting.
I personally buy stainless steel nipples for my Italian made shotgun, but I don't shoot it that often. If I were regularly shooting it in clays competition, I would buy the Spitfire nipples for it, and not expect to replace them in my own lifetime.
I personally buy stainless steel nipples for my Italian made shotgun, but I don't shoot it that often. If I were regularly shooting it in clays competition, I would buy the Spitfire nipples for it, and not expect to replace them in my own lifetime.
Thanks, that is good info and Dixie is the only retailer which bothers to provide that information. In fact the Dixie catalog is chock full of useful info. I rarely buy from Dixie but I would never be without one of their catalogs even though it may be an old one. :grin:
