Wheellock Project

[TobJohn]

Something i hadn’t noticed about these puffer wheellocks, before seeing them in person, is that their proportions are massive.

 

[Henry Elwood]

Something i hadn’t noticed about these puffer wheellocks, before seeing them in person, is that their proportions are massive.
View attachment 274657

Greetings,
I really enjoy seeing you guys post photos of originals. Yes they are very large. My thought about that sort of thing is that they first of most things are over built then they get slimmed as they progress. Mine are heavy I wouldn't want to hold it out there for too long to get a target.
Hank

 

[TobJohn]

Greetings,
I really enjoy seeing you guys post photos of originals. Yes they are very large. My thought about that sort of thing is that they first of most things are over built then they get slimmed as they progress. Mine are heavy I wouldn't want to hold it out there for too long to get a target.
Hank

These would have also been in holsters on horse, so only had to hold it up for a short time.

 

[Henry Elwood]

These would have also been in holsters on horse, so only had to hold it up for a short time.

Yes Sir,
I've always wondered about the gun on the left side of the saddle, having the lock to the inside. Don't know if that would give them any problems.
Hank

 

[TobJohn]

Yes Sir,
I've always wondered about the gun on the left side of the saddle, having the lock to the inside. Don't know if that would give them any problems.
Hank

I’m fairly certain that you would always shoot with the same hand. Often, the left gun (not 100% sure if the right is the same) is actually upside down in the holster. You reach over with your right hand and the upside down orientation helps you clear the horses head without accidentally shooting it.

The beginning of the Graz book also has an illustration of a cavalry soldier with both pistols on the same side.

 

[Commodore Swab]

Greetings Swab,
That does look interesting. My guess is that those locks look about as big as the ones I made. But looking at them, no external Safty Dog, External Bridle, no Pushbutton Pan Closure, no Wheel Cover just the Arm/"Paw" to the ~8 O'clock position, and the Dog Spring looks more like early Frizzen Springs. Makes me wonder how close/conceptually these would be to Jesse's /TRS -Dutch lock. I like thinking about this, thanks for drawing my attention to them.
Thanks,Hank

Ive thought about using those parts and making a new lockplate. Before I start on that though im thinking of making one similar style but more rounded lockplate (pages 444 or so) using trs converted wheellock lock as i have a couple of them in a drawer.

 

[Henry Elwood]

Ive thought about using those parts and making a new lockplate. Before I start on that though im thinking of making one similar style but more rounded lockplate (pages 444 or so) using trs converted wheellock lock as i have a couple of them in a drawer.

Greetings,
That is interesting with the plate sitting proud of the stock. When I made the Wheellock Jaeger I used Jesse's Lock and altered it to have a beveled Plate and sat Proud but that was during the Renisaunce of Wheellocks about 1690+. I've never fired one with this style of grip. Di you know how they shoot? Frankly this/that is why I build the things I do. I like finding out how things work for myself or someone who has really done it. Hank

 

[Henry Elwood]

I’m fairly certain that you would always shoot with the same hand. Often, the left gun (not 100% sure if the right is the same) is actually upside down in the holster. You reach over with your right hand and the upside down orientation helps you clear the horses head without accidentally shooting it.

The beginning of the Graz book also has an illustration of a cavalry soldier with both pistols on the same side.

Excellent thought about the left pistol being holstered Backwards and reaching for it with your right hand. My Dad who passed about 5 years ago at 96 loved to tell the story of an older friend of his who was in the Cavalry and when he was first in, they were practicing shooting from their horse and had to shoot first at a target to the right or left then were to cross over and shoot to the opposite side. His friend shot the back of his horses head. It dropped him like a rock. Fortunately the horse was fine after some TLC. But his friend was almost the Permanent Stable Guy for that. I think x2 holsters on the Right Side would be good for me. Thanks, Hank

 

[TobJohn]

Excellent thought about the left pistol being holstered Backwards and reaching for it with your right hand. My Dad who passed about 5 years ago at 96 loved to tell the story of an older friend of his who was in the Cavalry and when he was first in, they were practicing shooting from their horse and had to shoot first at a target to the right or left then were to cross over and shoot to the opposite side. His friend shot the back of his horses head. It dropped him like a rock. Fortunately the horse was fine after some TLC. But his friend was almost the Permanent Stable Guy for that. I think x2 holsters on the Right Side would be good for me. Thanks, Hank

Oh wow! That is quite the anecdote! I don’t think I would have been coordinated enough for any type of cavalry… I would have been given a pike and told to try my best

 

[Henry Elwood]

Oh wow! That is quite the anecdote! I don’t think I would have been coordinated enough for any type of cavalry… I would have been given a pike and told to try my best

I don't think I would be coordinated enough for that either. Hank

 

[Commodore Swab]

I've never fired one with this style of grip. Di you know how they shoot? Frankly this/that is why I build the things I do. I like finding out how things work for myself or someone who has really done it. Hank

No idea how they shoot but they look really cool. I started out wanting things i couldn't afford so i started building. Mechanics come naturally and it has always been a desire to figure out how they work and make it better.

 

[Henry Elwood]

No idea how they shoot but they look really cool. I started out wanting things i couldn't afford so i started building. Mechanics come naturally and it has always been a desire to figure out how they work and make it better.

There definitely is the cool factor. I definitely understand the building. But the thing I like about building is, then you see things that others haven't even thought of. When I was making the Girardonis I told Martin that I thought the Breech Block should be tapered. When Robert Beeman came back from Europe, buying an original he took it to a machinist. He miked the Block and it was tapered on all four sides. Robert emailed us and wanted to know how I knew this. It wasn't in any of the literature. I said, you collect Air Rifles, and I'm building. You look at things differently when you're building. Sorry too many words.
Hank

 

[Appowner]

Greetings,
Thanks for your thoughts. It's nice to think it will cycle that many times. I saw another post that was talking about Black Powder but after I closed down to look for this book I couldn't figure out where I was to get back. So, this is the book. It is excellent it was published back in 1996 from the University at Bath England. It seems like I bought my copy direct not sure where folks might find it currently.
Thanks, Hank

It has an ISBN number for it of: 0 86197 124 8
I did a search and found it on Amazon of all places for $170 used. Amazon Link
Out of my price range.

 

[XVIIc Wheelock]

Greetings Larry,
The Vulcan Anvils were made from 1875 to 1969 the Face was added to the Anvils and this one was worn out. The Fellow the welded the Face did it like you were frosting a cake. I don't know how long it took him to do it and then to surface it???? Finding Blacksmithing equipment especially in California isn't easy. I tell Folks it's like looking for chicken lips. So if you find something you need to get it. It's all part of the fun of our art form. You never know when something you find will help you build. Thanks,Hank

Henry: Check out the anvil and vice in this video:

 

[Henry Elwood]

Henry: Check out the anvil and vice in this video:

Greetings,
Yes, a nice Leg Vice always comes in handy. Don't be too impressed I've been at this starting in '72 but when you see something buy it like my first Anvil. Slow and steady is the work. Their Anvils are pretty impressive. Looks like they need something that size. Thanks for the heads up to see. Thanks,Hank

 

[TobJohn]

Greetings,
I really enjoy seeing you guys post photos of originals. Yes they are very large. My thought about that sort of thing is that they first of most things are over built then they get slimmed as they progress. Mine are heavy I wouldn't want to hold it out there for too long to get a target.
Hank

Interestingly, this one is actually the opposite

When I saw it in person, I was struck by how delicate it looked. It’s from the 1520s and found in an area of major conflict against the ottomans, so definitely a military arm. Maybe they realized they needed something more campaign proof, but overcompensated. There is also only one other similar gun surviving. Also the same size.

I didn’t get a good full sized photo of the RA pistol, but this close up of the lock shows how it is both rough and made with care. An interesting combo.

 

[Henry Elwood]

Greetings,
Yes, a nice Leg Vice always comes in handy. Don't be too impressed I've been at this starting in '72 but when you see something buy it like my first Anvil. Slow and steady is the work. Their Anvils are pretty impressive. Looks like they need something that size. Thanks for the heads up to see. Thanks,Hank

Greetings XVIIc,
It sounds like you also like the Blacksmithing aspect of Gun Making. I thought you might like to see this Treadle Hammer. I got this and my Swedge Block at the same place in Barstow. Back in the early '90s at Conner Prairie they use to host classes. At first the Classes were Observation/Lecture but after a couple of time going there we/the students said we need a hands on. There's just too many things you have to learn and feel when your Forging a Barrel. The Class was presented by Hershel House and Melvin Lenton, the Lead Blacksmithing at Conner Prairie. For Class we started out with a scalp of 1/2"x 3"x~18". I ended up with a Barrel segment of ~16"x ~1 1/8" x~1/3" bore. Note, after you had your Barrel Forged Welded in the Round you Hammer the Octagonal Flats in but you do that at a lower Temp. Dull Red. You do that so you don't collapse the Bore. When you finish that then you cut the ends off and the Teaming Process starts. When I was there Melvin introduce me to an organization called ABANA, Artist Blacksmiths Association of North America. This is a good source of information later I subscribed to the California Blacksmith Association. With so many Disciplines involved in making our Art Form, It'll keep you busy.
Thanks,Hank

 

[XVIIc Wheelock]

Henry: Thank you!
Way back post #102 I mentioned that I enjoyed watching blacksmiths work horse shoes as a teenager, but this 19th Century mechanical Treadle Hammer forging a barrel into shape is something I am totally unfamiliar with.....and imagining your early lessons on its use must have been a learning adventure to behold! As you stated, observation/Lecture with subsequent hands-on must have been the cats' meow! I had no clue that such a mechanical marvel existed back in the day. So that is how octagon flat were mechanically forged! I guess now it is CNC or equivalent? Now I completely understand why Blacksmith shops were isolated...cannot imagine the decibels that a treadle hammer creates. So interesting....I really appreciate your sharing with us....thank you again! Here is the ABANA organization:
https://abana.org/

 

[Henry Elwood]

Henry: Thank you!
Way back post #102 I mentioned that I enjoyed watching blacksmiths work horse shoes as a teenager, but this 19th Century mechanical Treadle Hammer forging a barrel into shape is something I am totally unfamiliar with.....and imagining your early lessons on its use must have been a learning adventure to behold! As you stated, observation/Lecture with subsequent hands-on must have been the cats' meow! I had no clue that such a mechanical marvel existed back in the day. So that is how octagon flat were mechanically forged! I guess now it is CNC or equivalent? Now I completely understand why Blacksmith shops were isolated...cannot imagine the decibels that a treadle hammer creates. So interesting....I really appreciate your sharing with us....thank you again! Here is the ABANA organization:
https://abana.org/

Greetings,
I'm glad you like the information. I didn't use the Treadle to forge the Barrel. You have to have x2 people. One to Hammer and one for the Mandrel when you are making the weld. The other thing is that when you are forging correctly , meaning correct Temperature when you strike the stock it's like hitting clay. If it's ringing you're probably not at the correct heat. Now that being said I learned along time ago that if you put a large magnet under the square area, under the Hardy/Prichel Hole it blunts the ring of the Anvil. I'm glad you find this interesting.
Thanks,Hank

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

I'm glad you find this interesting.

I'm quite sure many of us do, this is fascinating info!