When does a handgonne become an arquebus?

[TobJohn]

This is a question I have been thinking about for a while, and a recent discussion on terminology prompted me to make a post about it.

We can probably all agree that this is a handgonne:

And this is an arquebus:

There is an ambiguous period where guns have a stock, like what we are used to seeing, but no lock.

Would we call these arquebuses or handgonnes?
Does the lock make the arquebus, or the stock and overall shape? To confuse the issue even more, there are very primitive “locks” on some handgonnes

This question is not so much what the period correct term is, because the word “arquebus” evolved from “Haakbus” (and similar terms) for large hook guns, but more of what we would classify them today.

 

[Rudyard]

This is a question I have been thinking about for a while, and a recent discussion on terminology prompted me to make a post about it.

We can probably all agree that this is a handgonne:
View attachment 268115
And this is an arquebus:
View attachment 268116

There is an ambiguous period where guns have a stock, like what we are used to seeing, but no lock.
View attachment 268117
View attachment 268118

Would we call these arquebuses or handgonnes?
Does the lock make the arquebus, or the stock and overall shape? To confuse the issue even more, there are very primitive “locks” on some handgonnes
View attachment 268119

This question is not so much what the period correct term is, because the word “arquebus” evolved from “Haakbus” (and similar terms) for large hook guns, but more of what we would classify them today.
View attachment 268121

Thats a very good question But I haven't got an answer to match it. The depictions seem as' over the top' as the fashions they wear ,Carnaby streets got nothing on them thats for sure but its all good stuff you keep finding for us .
Regards Rudyard

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

To me, it is when the tiller started to take the shape of a ‘typical gunstock-like shape’ that it became an arquebus.

I would think another mandatory requirement for an arquebus would be that it had a serpentine lever mounted on it.

In the pictures shown above, the 2nd from the last is more of a ‘tiller stocked’ hand gonne, even though it does have a serpentine equipped.

I consider that part of the evolution … ?????

 

[TobJohn]

To me, it is when the tiller started to take the shape of a ‘typical gunstock-like shape’ that it became an arquebus.

I would think another mandatory requirement for an arquebus would be that it had a serpentine lever mounted on it.

In the pictures shown above, the 2nd from the last is more of a ‘tiller stocked’ hand gonne, even though it does have a serpentine equipped.

I consider that part of the evolution … ?????

Yeah, I am leaning towards the stock as the primary feature. If someone attached a full matchlock mechanism to an old style tiller handgonne, it would still feel like a handgonne and not an arquebus.

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

Exactly …

 

[Pukka Bundook]

You think same as me, Dale.
A rudimentary stock, plus a basic lock.

 

[Big Al1]

Beautiful article..Are there books on these wonderful and beautiful firearms?

 

[Sam squanch]

The handgonne becomes an arquebus when the bell strikes midnight…..and the coach turns back into a pumpkin…. Just not Gary Busey’s pumpkin……

 

[Darto]

I believe that in between the handgonne and the arquebus is the serpentine. I have all 3.

The gonne has nothing to hold a match. The match is held on a separate stick (or rod) to reach out and touch the hole. The gunstock is a pole like a broomstick stuck in the back of the barrel. There is a steel breach block in the middle of the barrel.

The serpentine is exactly like the gonne except there is a lever shaped like a reverse S (i.e. a serpent) which holds the match. It has no springs or lockwork. You just tug on the bottom of the S back toward yourself and the top of the S rotates forward on a screw through its center to touch the match to the touchhole dish out area (the pan) on top of the barrel. This stock still is a pole stuck in the barrel.

The Arequebus does away with the broomhandle pole for a stock shaped like a modern gun. The barrel is wedged onto the top the stock. The touch hole is now on the side of the barrel instead of the top of the barrel. So you can see down the barrel with no flash or match in your line of sight. Now sights were possible and were therefore also added. The arquebus allows 3 point support (two hands and shoulder).

Refer

The matchlock replaces the long serpentine with a simple toggle lock with a spring to hold a much smaller serpentine from rotating by spring pressure instead of by gravity. The bottom end of the small serpentine is the tricker (trigger) and is in a tricker guard. The tricker spring allowed more control of precisely knowing when the gun would discharge. You could feel the spring tightening told you when the gun would discharge. You watched the sights on the target. Accuracy was greatly improved.

The matchlock was such an advance in technology, that it was a super weapon that lasted maybe 200 years! 1490-1690. No other type of gun lasted so long. The flintlock only maybe 140 years 1690-1830. Caplocks 40 years 1830-1870. Cartridge guns only 150 years 1870-2020.

Reference: The Age of Firearms by Held (Stackpole). It used to be in every sporting goods store on a rack. 8-1/2" by 11".

https://www.amazon.com/age-firearms-pictorial-history/dp/B0006AULI0/

 

[Pukka Bundook]

In general true, Darto, but we also get hand guns that are attached to a stock with bands, and all sorts of permiatations thereof.
No-one at the time was thinking how to make it easy to categorize these guns 600 years later .

Best,
R.

 

[TobJohn]

I believe that in between the handgonne and the arquebus is the serpentine. I have all 3.

The gonne has nothing to hold a match. The match is held on a separate stick (or rod) to reach out and touch the hole. The gunstock is a pole like a broomstick stuck in the back of the barrel. There is a steel breach block in the middle of the barrel.

The serpentine is exactly like the gonne except there is a lever shaped like a reverse S (i.e. a serpent) which holds the match. It has no springs or lockwork. You just tug on the bottom of the S back toward yourself and the top of the S rotates forward on a screw through its center to touch the match to the touchhole dish out area (the pan) on top of the barrel. This stock still is a pole stuck in the barrel.

The Arequebus does away with the broomhandle pole for a stock shaped like a modern gun. The barrel is wedged onto the top the stock. The touch hole is now on the side of the barrel instead of the top of the barrel. So you can see down the barrel with no flash or match in your line of sight. Now sights were possible and were therefore also added. The arquebus allows 3 point support (two hands and shoulder).

Refer

The matchlock replaces the long serpentine with a simple toggle lock with a spring to hold a much smaller serpentine from rotating by spring pressure instead of by gravity. The bottom end of the small serpentine is the tricker (trigger) and is in a tricker guard. The tricker spring allowed more control of precisely knowing when the gun would discharge. You could feel the spring tightening told you when the gun would discharge. You watched the sights on the target. Accuracy was greatly improved.

The matchlock was such an advance in technology, that it was a super weapon that lasted maybe 200 years! 1490-1690. No other type of gun lasted so long. The flintlock only maybe 140 years 1690-1830. Caplocks 40 years 1830-1870. Cartridge guns only 150 years 1870-2020.

Reference: The Age of Firearms by Held (Stackpole). It used to be in every sporting goods store on a rack. 8-1/2" by 11".

https://www.amazon.com/age-firearms-pictorial-history/dp/B0006AULI0/

There is a surviving pole handgonne from the first quarter of the 1400s that has a spring for the serpentine. An interesting example of how the ideas and technology crossed over:

 

[Darto]

Wow, that's neat. I haven't heard of those intermediate types before.
They didn't have patents in those days, or large scale manufacturing factories. And therefore less incentive to invent improvements.

 

[TobJohn]

Wow, that's neat. I haven't heard of those intermediate types before.
They didn't have patents in those days, or large scale manufacturing factories. And therefore less incentive to invent improvements.

There was definitely a drive to innovate, but the lack of central procurement or proper factories (outside of the Venetian arsenal) certainly slowed and discouraged widescale adoption of innovative (or expensive) features. It seems like they tried every thing they could think of and only some things stuck. There are some surviving breechloading handgonne too:

 

[Darto]

Yep, I'm learning a lot right here about development paths of the earliest European guns!

 

[Pukka Bundook]

Tob,
Funnily enough, I'd like to make both of the ones you show above!
There are a few with the off-set barrel and they appeal somehow!

 

[TobJohn]

Tob,
Funnily enough, I'd like to make both of the ones you show above!
There are a few with the off-set barrel and they appeal somehow!

Your farm and responsibilities are keeping us from one of the best gunsmiths of our era!

 

[Darto]

Assembling your authentic kit..

Always lit match.
Serpentine tassel.
Pyramid flask.
Long shooting rest.
Swiss guard helmet.
Sandals.
Pantaloons.
Forget about a razor.

 

[Flintlock Whiskey]

One has to ponder just how many of these helped the enemy by exploding.

 

[TobJohn]

Assembling your authentic kit..

Always lit match.
Serpentine tassel.
Pyramid flask.
Long shooting rest.
Swiss guard helmet.
Sandals.
Pantaloons.
Forget about a razor.

Trying to convince my girlfriend to let me dress like this. I don’t think I will win this one…

The helmet is a “Morion” helmet, which is originally Spanish but became universal.

 

[TobJohn]

Beautiful article..Are there books on these wonderful and beautiful firearms?

Pre Flintlock Books

We have discussed some in this thread, but there are less books than there should be.