Where do you draw the line?

[Griz44Mag]

Gosh! You have got yourself into what we used to call a "tizz". Life is hard enough, especially now, without added aggression, sir.

Absolutely no tizz here. I respected the rights of the group to make their rules as they see fit. There were no hard feelings or harsh words. I politely thanked the person who invited me and politely excused myself and went off to my regularly visited range. The person who did invite me is still a regular shooting buddy and we occasionally hunt together.
As far as the poster that thought he needed to chastise me for leaving that meeting, had he taken the time to read my post then he would not have made himself look silly with his useless statement. He allowed his emotions to control his rational thought processes. And my response was far more polite than his ugly post in which he elected to call names.
For your reading pleasure I will re-quote his post. I honestly believe he was the one who was "snarky and offended" that I did not want to be part of a reenactment crowd. So be it.
I posted nothing that derided or belittled the group I was visiting. Overall, they seemed a very likeable bunch, just not my cup of tea.
Does that make things a bit clearer for you?

Then just don't go. They have their rules and if that causes you to need mydol, don't go. If you go to someone's event and don't like the rules, leave. Make your own event. I get so tired of the snarky, offended crowd.

 

[Redlemur60]

Why? Please give reasons for this censorial statement.

Well because only "myopinion matters"!

 

[Robby]

 

[RATROD56]

Just curious and to keep from hi jacking a different thread

How HC/PC are you comfortable with.

I have been known to leave my keys in the truck and use the door code in order to not have anything modern on my person at an event.

Are you ok with a plastic/delrin/fiberglass ramrod?
Ok with a plastic stock?
Ok with fiber optic sights?
Ok with a scope?
Ok with an in-line

Not for others just for yourself.

Maybe this should be a poll?

No here too

 

[DixieTexian]

View attachment 144611

This is why we don't let children draw our line in the sand. It's as crooked as all get out.

As far as where to draw the line, I shoot muzzleloaders because I enjoy the historical aspect of them. That means I try to be as historically accurate as I can afford to be, which isn't all that great with respects to my guns yet. I have a GPR percussion (left handed, but that's the big exception I make to trying to be historically accurate), a Pedersoli Scout FL, and a Walker. Accoutrements and clothing are mainly what I am working on right now, but that's because I can make them myself for very little cost. One of these days I will start building my own guns, but those cost a bit more to build yourself.

 

[LME]

This is why we don't let children draw our line in the sand. It's as crooked as all get out.

As far as where to draw the line, I shoot muzzleloaders because I enjoy the historical aspect of them. That means I try to be as historically accurate as I can afford to be, which isn't all that great with respects to my guns yet. I have a GPR percussion (left handed, but that's the big exception I make to trying to be historically accurate), a Pedersoli Scout FL, and a Walker. Accoutrements and clothing are mainly what I am working on right now, but that's because I can make them myself for very little cost. One of these days I will start building my own guns, but those cost a bit more to build yourself.

I don't know about drawing a line in the sand but my wife and I had a heated argument once and she told me I wouldn't be seeing her for two weeks? I sure fooled her! In eignt days I could see her a little bit when the swelling started going down in my left eye.

 

[Mr. Flintlock]

If you read my post that you quoted you might see that the written rules I referenced stated ‘blackpowder only, no modern guns, Civil War or earlier guns only’, with no mention of muzzleloaders. Appears you believe ‘blackpowder only’ means ‘muzzleloaders only’.

Not at all. I was just making a statement

 

[Mr. Flintlock]

If you read my post that you quoted you might see that the written rules I referenced stated ‘blackpowder only, no modern guns, Civil War or earlier guns only’, with no mention of muzzleloaders. Appears you believe ‘blackpowder only’ means ‘muzzleloaders only’.

Not at all, I was just making a statement. Don't get your panties in a bunch.

 

[sturmkatze]

Why? Please give reasons for this censorial statement.

How is it censorial? It's just getting nastier. You will not get a consensus, some guys like authenticity, others are offended by it. A farb is someone less authentic than me and a stitch nazi, someone more authentic than I am. By the way, I always love how they have to work "nazis" into it.

 

[sturmkatze]

Absolutely no tizz here. I respected the rights of the group to make their rules as they see fit. There were no hard feelings or harsh words. I politely thanked the person who invited me and politely excused myself and went off to my regularly visited range. The person who did invite me is still a regular shooting buddy and we occasionally hunt together.
As far as the poster that thought he needed to chastise me for leaving that meeting, had he taken the time to read my post then he would not have made himself look silly with his useless statement. He allowed his emotions to control his rational thought processes. And my response was far more polite than his ugly post in which he elected to call names.
For your reading pleasure I will re-quote his post. I honestly believe he was the one who was "snarky and offended" that I did not want to be part of a reenactment crowd. So be it.
I posted nothing that derided or belittled the group I was visiting. Overall, they seemed a very likeable bunch, just not my cup of tea.
Does that make things a bit clearer for you?

How did I call you names? In 30+ years of reenacting, I have seen many who want events to change for Them and think they shouldn't change for the event. I no longer care. I call it as I see it.

You think it's some group of old guys intent on constraining your fun. The really authentic guys are young ones now. Did you even think that when you show up looking wrong, or really off, that you ruin other people's "time trip". No one is perect, and a guy who improves each time out, is not wrong. However, those who continue to not want to improve or do it right? Who cares. Go away. It's one thing at a shoot, where the primary purpose is burning powder, but at a historical event, no.

I have a thing wherein of I hear some dork say something like "You'd be a damned fool to xxx" I no longer listen to anything they say.

I know about reenacting -- 31 years. I've been shooting flintlocks since I was 15. I'll just continue on and ignore the puffy people. By the way, the ones some of you call "stitch nazis" are the people willing to help the most if you just ask. Whatev.

 

[Howard Pippin]

Most everybody has some pretty strong feelings on these reenactors, we don't have any in my part of the country or at least not within 100 miles, but there are some cowboy type shooters events that look a little bit period, Except for their funny QuickDraw holsters. I enjoy the aspect of it, I even have a pair of moccasins but I can't wear the darn things as they hurt my feet, and at my age comfort is kind it taken the front stage. I enjoy shooting muzzleloaders as much for the chance to experiment with different powders, types of lead, and patching material. I'm pretty sure there weren't any beaver trappers out there carrying a muzzleloader at my age as it was a young man's game. When I see those old Lewis and Clark reenactors, they're kind of fun to watch but they're probably all over 60 and the guys that did that were hardly over 20, But it is fun to play, Do it as long as you can, because once you quit it doesn't come back.
. Squint

 

[tenngun]

If my eyes don't deceive me he said,"""England couldn't dump criminals in America"". I don't know what he meant but I know what he wrote?

England had dumped criminals in America. Couldn’t do that after 1783. Thus they started with Botany Bay.
Wel sort of. Uk didn’t dump its criminals any more here but an awful lot fled and came here still

 

[Bob McBride]

My first American ancestor was sentenced to Transportation after finding himself on the losing side at Culloden. It’s an interesting feeling to discover your people didn’t immigrate to America….but we’re sentenced to America.

 

[SciAggie]

I have found so much in this thread to be interesting. As for the OP’s original list, I personally wouldn’t use any of the items. I enjoy the traditional muzzleloaders. As I read the comments about HC/PC though I’ve learned there is much I don’t know about both dress and attitudes.
Where I live in Central Texas I don’t know many BP shooters to begin with. I do know a family that is into western re-enacting. They do some minor movie stuff and focus on the 1870-1890 time period.
I would say I hunt and carry what appeals to me. I normally carry a Rigby style English sporting rifle. I carry a bag made by The Leatherman. Neither would be necessarily correct at any time in my neck of the woods. I simply carry and use them ‘cause I like them.
I get the point of folks that are into period correctness wanting others to be PC as well. I was recently in Colonial Williamsburg and the HC/PC dress and language of the folks there made it a memorable experience.
I’m personally not into wearing period dress but I am interested in knowing about such things.

 

[Coinneach]

My Turn.

To @French Colonial original question my answer is one should try to be as HC/PC as possible and reasonable to the time period in question, AND adhering to the rules (if any) set forth by the organizer/organizers. If you don't like the rules don't go. Since my era is the North American Fur Trade from the late 1700's to 1840, if an event is to portray that time period, then to the items @French Colonial listed I say absolutely not.

Having said that. If I was standing buck naked at an event I could never be truly HC/PC because the lenses in my eyes have been replaced. So there's that.

Some kind of compromise has to be made because as @tenngun has pointed out he'd charge a $100k to help one accomplish pure HC/PC and I agreed that's what it would cost, and still probably not possible. Just using black powder made EXACTLY as it was made back in the day would probably be impossible. The British got most of their poop nitrate from the toilets of India (because of its huge population vast amounts were readily available). Americans got a large portion of it from bat caves. Where does it come from today? (I don't honestly know)

So I recently attended a small Mountain Man Rendezvous up here. The usual drill, try and be as HC/PC as you can to the Mountain Man era, with primitive and tin tipi areas. Problem was half of my stuff I shipped down south thinking I was doing Rendezvous' there this year. But Trudeau thinks I might be related to Typhoid Mary so he wouldn't let me through Canada.

My cooking/coffee/food/water/camp stuff including my tent stakes are down south. The rest of the stuff up here.

I had to substitute giant nails for my tent stakes. Cooking/coffee/food/water/camp became Mountain House, Instant Coffee, Jet Boil, and plastic water jugs. All neatly hidden away in burlap sacks and used behind closed tent flaps. I was bummed and felt a bit guilty. Up until the Booshway's three adult grandsons showed up in blue jeans, sneakers and wife beaters (which soon came off) and stayed in camp. And until guys showed up at the firing line wearing modern sunglasses, and wearing modern clothes. And until the beer cans and whiskey bottles came out at night in the Booshway's camp. I felt sorry for the other ten camps or so that tried their very best to "do it right".

Will I go to the next one they put on next month? Yes, in part cause they are the only ones in the state. I've got my proper tent stakes so I'm happy about that, but I'll still be using Mountain House, Instant Coffee, Jet Boil, and plastic water jugs and this time I won't feel a bit guilty about it.

Outwardly I will be as HC/PC as I can be, knowing that a few others will as well, while most won't. And that's okay because it's their event and their rules. I'll still have a good time and that's why we are all in this, yes. And hopefully inspire others to put a little more effort into it next time- even though I know they won't. Lead by example and don't whine without offering up a solution, that's my philosophy.

Well sir I do believe you're got the right attitude, its not about what others do and how they do it, but about how we as individuals remain sincere enough to maintain a standard that fits our own historical impression, behaviour /code of conduct; Firearm safety; efficient handling and shooting.

Like more than a few of us ol Wolves in "this valley", I was mentored and influenced by my impressive predecessors who shone well out and among "the druthers" as the standard for those of us who were willing to strive for it. There were no criticisms or segregations back then, but for those of us newbie pilgrims who made note of their example; we were welcomed with good advice and guidance when we asked for it.
It seems to me thats all we can do ourselves nowadays, just maintain our own personal standards and be seen to do so; while extending a brothers hand for those who ask.

 

[cornstalk]

@Coinneach very well said. Thanks. I had a similar experience with the men who became my brothers.

 

[GREENSWLDE]

Did the rules state "muzzle-loaders only" ? Or did they say "period correct"? -- because capping breechloaders ARE "period correct" for the middle of the 19th century. Obviously METALLIC CARTRIDGE breechloaders -- even from that era -- would have been excluded. Whoever organises an "event" obviously has the right to make the rules that they want -- - but they should be clearly stated and not ambiguous.

My Cooper & Goodman CBL states clearly in the Patent of 1861 that "If you run out of Cartridges(paper cased as supplied by Cooper) this can be used as a normal muzzle loading gun" . If a CBL is loaded from the front is it NOT a Muzzle Loader?? OLD DOG..

 

[GREENSWLDE]

Gosh! You have got yourself into what we used to call a "tizz". Life is hard enough, especially now, without added aggression, sir.

Jim, A tizz. As an old small boat sailing person, we would have termed this as a A mares nest or as A B---ers muddle.Trust you are well. OLD DOG..

 

[Griz44Mag]

You think it's some group of old guys intent on constraining your fun. The really authentic guys are young ones now. Did you even think that when you show up looking wrong, or really off, that you ruin other people's "time trip". No one is perect, and a guy who improves each time out, is not wrong. However, those who continue to not want to improve or do it right? Who cares. Go away. It's one thing at a shoot, where the primary purpose is burning powder, but at a historical event, no.

I have a thing wherein of I hear some dork say something like "You'd be a damned fool to xxx" I no longer listen to anything they say.

I know about reenacting -- 31 years. I've been shooting flintlocks since I was 15. I'll just continue on and ignore the puffy people. By the way, the ones some of you call "stitch nazis" are the people willing to help the most if you just ask. Whatev.

Once again, you don't seem to be able to comprehend anything I have said.
No, I do not think some group of "old guys" are constraining me. In fact, there were very few "old guys" there. I don't think a single one of them had reached my age yet.
And I have never used the term "a damned fool" or the term "stitch nazi" when referring to re-enactors -
Why are you so intent on saying things that are simply not true?
I was not interested in joining this particular group. Their "modus operandi" just did not fit my idea of recreational enjoyment.
I did not belittle them, denigrate them or in any way find what they are doing distasteful or offensive.
The group was exclusive of anyone that did not follow their rules, so I politely excused myself and left.
Nothing here to go off in a tirade about.

 

[Mr. Flintlock]

Muzzle Loader, purist don't know or don't care to know that the 'black powder' era of firearms had many innovations that made their way to modern firearms, ie; breech loaders, multi-shot and so forth. would even the most ardent of black powder purist refuse to let a shooter with a Furgeson 'breech-loading' Rifle shoot at their club or event? Sadly, yes.

I thought this was called "The Muzzleloading Forum "? A place to discuss "MUZZLELOADING". Yes, I am a purist. I only shoot muzzleloaders. I didn't join this forum to discuss cartridge guns be they black powder or not.