Which two

[running horse]

Looking for a rifle and a smooth bore that are likely for an individual. Timeframe late 1740 through 50s owner of approximately 800 acre plantation in Lancaster county Virginia, I believe east side of corrotoman River if that changes anything. Family has been in location for about 120yrs by 1750. Individual fought in French and Indian war as I understand from later records. What types of guns may this individual have carried with them. Thanks for any help you can give.

 

[Wes/Tex]

The hardest part in answering your question is a general lack of certain information about early rifles. The actual fact is there are few, if any, surviving rifles made prior to 1750, that can be accurately dated. Rifles appear to have developed over a decade or more from their Germanic Jaeger rifle ancestors. When, where and by who are the problems. Several rifles thought of as "early" have since been proved not to be. Most likely, they'd be shorter than later long rifles, a bit larger in bore size, somewhat heavy and formal in architecture and heavier than later long rifles.

The earliest Virginia type rifle probably came from the James River basin and may, and I stress MAY, date as early as the 1740's but you'll find a lot of argument. many like to date the Christian Springs type rifles to the same period but I really think they're a decade later.

Many guns of the early 18th century were fowlers or ex-military smoothbores. many people who had firearms were militia members and smoothbores were more compatible, though not required, with quasi-military use. Smaller bored types now called 'officer's fusil' are known from the period and are similar to standard civilian fowlers.

Just for ref. I am showing pics of one of the earliest known rifles from Virginia. It was mad by Johanes Faber of Rockbridge County, Va. and thought to date about 1750 or possibly just earlier. Sadly there's no guarantee.
http://ehcnc.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/figures-2-5b-1024x478.jpg

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
No one really knows what a rifle made in or near Virginia would look like from the 1740s or 1750s. However, we do know from documentation that at least some plantation owners had English fowling guns and there is at least one reference to an English rifle by William Turvey. Below is from Gus, who participates on our forum:

Col. Phillip Ludwell Lee of Stratford VA (later home of "Light Horse" Harry Lee and birthplace of General Robert E Lee) owned at least One Turvey Rifle and one Turvey gun from that period and I'm sure he would have been thrilled with your Rifle and other pieces to come En Suite.

"Col. Phil also enjoyed hunting. The inventory of his possessions included “1 Rifle new made by Turvey” and “1 new Turvey,” as well as a fowling piece and a gun.57 The rifle and unspecified firearm were probably made by gunsmith William Turvey (II) of London. Most Virginia planters purchased locally-made rifles, but Col. Phil had sent to London to acquire one of the best rifles available at the time. Much more accurate than those made in the colonies, this rifle was used for recreational game hunting and target matches. Turvey rifles were elegant, artistic pieces, and an obvious status symbol in the colonies.58"
http://www.stratfordhall.org/collections-research/staff-rese...

dave

 

[rich pierce]

Agree with Dave. Folks there basically saw themselves as English and an imported basic to fancy fowler would be most likely. I’m not sure we can document from estate inventories, many rifles by 1740. Records show advertisements for English, Dutch, and German rifles around that time. Both the fowler and rifle would ideally be stocked in English walnut but American would do.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Looking at the pics of that rifle caused me some serious drool here. Both beautiful and interesting. For a non-expert on such things, I would simply call it a 'transitional' style. Obviously born of the Jeager concept but evolving into a 'kentucky' style.

 

[running horse]

My question comes in part from a genealogy project that crosses my interest in history. The individual I am currently researching fought and was injured presumably in the leg in the French and Indian war preventing him from being able to March and participate in the revolution. So I am searching for the types of firearms that he may have used. And to perhaps build them at a later date. The 1740 date is in no means a solid date I just picked it as date prior to the war. The individual would have probably been to young to purchase a gun at that point but he could have used one of his father's guns. I am still looking for estate records and such so I am short specifics sorry.

 

[Artificer]

Gary Brumfield, dearly departed Past Master of Colonial Williamsburg’s Gunsmith Shop had this to say about pre 1750 Virginia Rifles.

“What’s a Virginia Rifle” http://flintriflesmith.com/WritingandResearch/WebArticles/VirginiaRifle.htm

We do know there was some trade in locks, rifle barrels and even complete rifles that came into Pennsylvania pretty early and Caspar Wistar may be the best documented source.

In 1730 [Caspar] Wistar established a trade connection with Georg Friedrich Hölzer, a family friend in the Palatinate. He ordered goods from Germany, which were then transported by German immigrants in their personal belongings in order to avoid British duties and then sold in his shop in Philadelphia. Using the immigrant transportation system for illicit trade was quite common among non-British immigrants at the time since the restrictions and duties imposed by the Navigation Acts were prohibitive. Although nowhere near as profitable as his land speculation, Wistar’s trade in imported commodities from the Rhine and Neckar Valleys represented an important step in his entrepreneurial and personal affairs. Establishing himself as the main supplier in an emerging market, he was able to furnish his fellow immigrants with specialized services since the items he imported (knives, scissors, needles, brass and iron goods, copper kettles, mirrors, eyeglasses, tobacco pipes, ivory combs, lace, and custom-made rifles) were not readily available in the colonies at the time. He only ordered high quality items and managed to attain market dominance in rifles by making sure his source in Germany was kept secret."
https://www.immigrantentrepreneurship.org/entry.php?rec=1

“Many gunsmiths may have spent much of their time repairing guns rather than creating new ones. There had long been a steady stream of imported guns into colonial America. Caspar Wistar imported German rifles in the 1730s and 1740s, asking his supplier to tailor them for the American market, where consumers “prefer rifles with barrels that are three feet and three to four inches long[26]
[26] Caspar Wistar to Georg Friederich Hölzer, October 1, 1737, in Rosalind Beiler, Immigrant and Entrepreneur: The Atlantic World of Caspar Wistar, 1650-1750 (University Park: Pennsylvania State University Press, 2008), 145-146.” https://www.immigrantentrepreneurship.org/entry.php?rec=180#_edn26

Note: The rifle barrel lengths mentioned above were 39 to 40 inches long, not quite the 42 to 46 inch lengths they would eventually grow to, but longer to much longer than many traditional German Jaeger or Hunting rifles.

“Caspar Wistar (1696-1752), who immigrated to Pennsylvania in 1717, imported more than fifty rifles, many especially tailored for the American market, from gunsmiths in Suhl and Rothenberg between 1731 and 1745.”
From: JOHANN ANDREAS ALBRECHT: MAKING RIFLES IN EIGHTEENTH-CENTURY MORAVIAN ECONOMIES
Scott Paul Gordon

From Forum Member Rich Pierce, “As you know the Marshall rifle barrel is stamped or engraved IAD Rothenberg. This may further support the Marshall rifle is a re stock of a German rifle”

More coming, but I want to get this posted so I don’t hit the wrong button and lose it.

Gus

 

[Artificer]

Running Horse,

I wanted to post that "data dump" so it may be a little easier to understand rifle procurement in the time period you are asking about.

Though rifle usage was known in the Shenandoah Valley and counties further west in Virginia during that period, there is not much known about those who restocked rifles or built rifles in that area during that time.

German gunsmiths came into that area of Virginia during this time to repair/restock and maybe/probably build some rifles with imported barrels and locks in this period. That's why I included the information on Caspar Wistar, though primarily as a way to document how rifle barrels, locks and complete rifles were imported.

It seems to me that our main problem in documenting rifles in Virginia or even Pennsylvania this early (1730-40's) is we cannot document even a single man who was known mostly or primarily as a "Rifle Smith." Their may or even likely was one, but we just can't document one.

Part of the problem for us is that were was not yet the demand for the quantity of rifles that came during and immediately after the FIW. So the gunsmiths who stocked or restocked or built up rifles from parts in this period were probably known for their work on smoothbore fowling pieces and pistols/trade guns and they "did rifles on the side" or in much less amounts than they did work on smoothbores. Since there are so few original rifles and even less written documentation, we can only hope something will eventually come to light in the future.

The period you are asking about also seems to be the beginning of the evolution of the German Jaeger (Hunting) Rifles and German Target rifles (with longer barrels) beginning to evolve into the longer barrel and slightly smaller caliber American Long Rifle.

For some decades now I have been trying to document a rifle that was made in Virginia and was early enough to be used in the FIW, so I know how this information can be frustrating that we can't document a rifle of this period much better.

Gus

 

[Artificer]

One last thing, if your ancestors had a rifle in the 1740 time period and especially since they were fairly well off and from the Tidewater of Virginia - I would look to an English Rifle like those made by William Turvey and others (as Dave Person previously pointed out).

Something like the "English Gentlemen's Sporting Rifle" from Jim Chambers would most likely have been in his ability to pay for:

Close up pics here: http://www.flintlocks.com/RK-12.htm

Scroll down this page for more info on kit here: http://www.flintlocks.com/rifles05.htm

Now, plainer versions of rifles similar to this were available and often built in England for use by English Game Keepers on the large estates of the wealthy. These men were "commoners" employed by the English Gentry, so the land owners would not pay for as fancy of a rifle for them. We don't have much documentation that such rifles were imported here during the 1740's, but if your ancestor still wanted a good rifle that didn't cost as much, he could have imported a plainer "Game Keeper" type rifle.

Gus

 

[running horse]

You mentioned rifles became more popular during and after the fiw it is known that he fought in that war and was injured is it a possibility that he would have started with a English Fowler (or other smooth bore. Suggestions welcome) and then purchased a rifle during that time frame? I understand a lot of this is speculation as what he could have done or had. Would those rifles produced during the fiw be more likely to come from Pennsylvania than from England or Germany? It's all very interesting to me as it seems a time where much isn't known about some things