Whithworth rifle barrel, where can i get one ?

Hi .
I am new to this forum , just found it a few days ago . This is my first post .
I would like to know if anyone out there knows
where i can buy a Whithworth rifled barrel .
I know they are traditionally a caplock firearm . and this is the flintlock page . But
i want to build a flintlock version of this gun .
Here in Pa. we can only hunt with flint guns and i dont want to build something i can't hunt with .
I have built two other rifles that are probably not historically correct .both were flintlock
versions of Forsythe barreled English Sporting Rifles . one in .62 cal . gets 1800fps with a 340 gr. ball and
200gr. load of 2f . The other is a .72 cal that
gets 1700 fps with a 500 ball and 260gr of 2f
(They get real interestin on the shoulder after
about ten shots or so . )The 62 weigh only 7-3/4
pounds the 72 about 9 lbs .
Anyway i would like to try to build a Whithworth barreled flint rifle . if anyone knows of a source for a barrel it would be greatly appreciated . Thanks .
Ps . since these were percussion guns , should
i post this also in the percussion board ??

 

Joe, welcome aboard. Where ever you get one it won't be cheap. My dad had a hawken style gun made years ago in Germany with a custom Witworth bore barrel but the barrel maker doesn't do them any more. The easiest would be to find a used Parker hale Whitworth, salvage the barrel, make a new breech plug and build a rifle. The barrels are round and the gun would not be cheap but it can be done. The original stock on those things would make a better canoe paddle anyways. You may be able to get a custom barrel maker to make one but I suspect it would be mucho denaro's

Cody

 

[musketman]

Hey Joe, (that would make a great song title, by the way...)

Where was I... Oh, I found a barrel maker that produces Witworth barrels...

I posted it on your other post about the Witworth...

 

[musketman]

quote:Originally posted by Joe / N.E. Pa.:
The other is a .72 cal that gets 1700 fps with a 500 ball and 260 gr of 2f. They get real interestin on the shoulder after about ten shots or so.You push a .72 caliber to 1700 fps?

How many dislocated shoulders have you had?

I run a .735 round ball in my brown bess with 100 grains of FFg thereabouts, but 260 grains?

That's only 27 shots per pound of powder...

I assume that the Forsythe barrel is stronger than the standard brown bess barrel, how thick is the walls of the barrel?

Is it rifled or smoothbore?

Along with flint ignition, I thought PA was also a smoothbore state. If rifled, what is the rate-of-twist in your .72 Forsythe barrel?

Let's see, a 500 grain ball going 1700 fps, that's enough energy to knock down a tree and kill the deer with the branches...

I would bet that it'll knock the stuffin' out of a black bear...

 

Musketman .
The barrel for the .72 is 1-1/4 at the breech
tapers to 1 inch at the muzzle .
I got the barrel from Roger Renner , he used to
build a rifle called the Zepher, an under hammer
caplock . He ran Pacific Rifle Co . out in
Oregon . used to advertise them in Muzzleloader
Magazine . The .72 was his "African " gun .
At least until he started building an .82cal
gun . I was going to build one of those , but the price of the barrel was a bit much for a
"Novelty Gun" $500 for the barrel if i remember . Pa is flint rifled barrel . The 72 has
a 1 in 104 twist if i remember correctly .
My .62 is also 1 in 104. it is plenty to stabilize the ballout to several hundred yards .
I have shot 4-5 inch groups . (with a peep site ) on the 62 out to 200 yards .
on it
As far as recoil in the 72 . at about 9 lbs .
it does pack a wallop at both ends . I was told
that one of his customers using the 500grball 260 grain 2f load has taken cape buffalo and elephant . I guess with carefully placed shots
it should be ok for our Pa whitetails.........
Joe .
oh yeah almmost forgot . after about 10 shots
shoulder has had it .and i start getting a headache, Tried to get some volunteers to help me
shooting and chronographing it , but i dont get
many (any) takers .
Also the velocities i quoted were over my chronograph . not somebodys guesses .......and at the 260 grain load i was still gaining velocity . Joe.

 

[musketman]

What works great when doing a lot of bench work using heavy (understatement of the year) loads, place a 25 pound bag of #6 chilled shot between the butt plate and your shoulder...

I ran over 100 stout .338 Winchester Magnum loads this way without a problem...

Ol' Val Forgett, back in 1973, took all of Africa's largest game using a .58 caliber Hawken type muzzleloader with a custom made, 610 grain minie-ball over top of 180 grains of FFFg.

This load shot clean through (lengthwise) an adult male cape buffalo at 80 yards away...

I would guess your .72 could do the same...

 

[Chuck Deaton]

Would someone explain what a Whitworth barrel is?

 

A Whitworth barrel has a hexagon bore rather than a round bore with rifleing. The hexagon bore twists. The South sharpshooters used them in the ACW. It's a very positive rifleing system. In my dad's .45 cal hawken style rifle, he shoots 510g slugs with 90g FFF. Don't know the twist rate but it must be fast. Says it kicks like a mule but will flatten a moose.

Cody

 

[musketman]

quote:Originally posted by DoLittle:
Would someone explain what a Whitworth barrel is? DoLittle, this might help you understand, here are some clear pictures of the hexagonal bore...


This is a gorgeous, cased, military sharpshooter's rifle by Thomas Turner of Birmingham, England.

In the next two pictures you can see the hexagonal Whitworth type bore.

In this picture you can see the original bullet tin with six original, paper patched bullets are present.

Confederate Whitworth bullet - M&M #250 (McKee & Mason) - dug Nashville, Tennessee.

Another Civil War Confederate Whitworth bullet.

 

Musketman .
That 338 must make a good woodchuck gun .Ha,Ha.
"Just bustin" actually i used the 25lb. bag of
shot trick when i was working up loads for my
460 Wtby . (guess that would explain the 62 and
72 cal guns , huh. ) I was a little leary of having that much resistance to recoil of the 72
on the wrist of the stock . what with the cutouts for the lock and tang .etc. As long as the rifle
is free to recoil i don't worry aboiut the stock
breaking in that area.
460 Weatherby 500 gr. bullet 2700 fps ...
O yeah . i think that the 72cal hurts worse
(note i did not say "kicks" worse ) than the
460 does .... Joe.

 

[musketman]

Back on topic for a bit...

Joe / N.E. Pa.

Do you have a whitworth bullet mold?
Dixie Gun Works sells them...

Here is the link for you:
http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_103&products_id=8020

 

[Chuck Deaton]

Wonders never cease.

 

[Tom]

Musketman: My jaw dropped when I saw the photo of the 2-band cased Whitworth rifle. It took me back to the early 1930's (I'm no kid...) when we visited family friends who lived on a farm just outside of Petersburg, VA. Trenches and earthworks ran through the farm and that area was not cultivated, but one whole corner of one of the barns was filled with shells, cannon balls and minie balls that had been plowed up and placed there. Naturally the Civil War seige came up in conversation and an old man who lived there and who had been a child during the war went up to the attic and brought down a case nearly identical to the one pictured. This Whitworth,however, had a telescopic sight on it and there was a small notebook. The sharpshooter who used the rifle came to the family a day or two before The Army of Northern Virginia began its retreat that ended at Appomatox and said that the word was going around that the Yanks were executing captured sharpshooters because of the damage they had been doing. He asked them to hide the rifle and keep it for him in hopes that he could get back. He, of course, never did, but they were still keeping it for him more than 70 years later. The notebook showed 27 hits in the previous 3o days,soI can understand the sharpshooter's concern.

 

[musketman]

quote:Originally posted by Tom Worthington:
This Whitworth, however, had a telescopic sight on it and there was a small notebook. The notebook showed 27 hits in the previous 30 days, so I can understand the sharpshooter's concern. Wow, in my opinion, that note book would be just as valuable as the rifle...

This is a "first person" eye-witness account to Civil War history..

The Whitworth was, and still is, an awesome weapon...

 

[2172]

page 72 of the 2004 Black Powder Annual (Dixie Gun Works) has an advertisement by Euroarms of America for a "Whitworth Military Target Rifle"
it mentions hexagonal rifling. the address is
PO Box 3277, Winchester, Va. 22604
telephone (504) 662-1863. No info on pricing.
Hank

 

Hank .
Thanks for the info i will have to look into
that .
I was really hoping to find a barrel . so i can build a flintlock . out of it .
I know that Navy Arms also has one but it is
pushing the $1,000 mark . I hate to spend that kind of money and try to convert it to a flint
gun .
If the Euroarms gun is less costly . i might be worth trying that route.
I want to try to build something similar to
the two guns described above .
Something along the lines of an English Sporting
Rifle . ( but something i'm not tempted to put
200- 250 grs of powder in )
I hope i can find one of these barrels before
i decide to buy an .82 cal barrel instead, (need to
stuff 300grs of powder in that one . )
thanks Joe.

 

Here's one for you.
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/categories/partList.aspx?catID=12&subID=83&styleID=290

cody

 

[2172]

Joe, L.C.Rice seems to be expanding the variety of barrels he's making...have you asked him? I see him once in a while, and have a couple of mutual friends...I'll ask him or get them to ask him about a Whitworth...Hank