Who Used Fowlers?

[Stophel]

Interesting. Does that book have a lot of history and discussion of how the guns were used? Or is it mainly a collector’s or gun builder’s reference? It’s a pricy book so just wondering before I order it.

40 bucks is CHEAP as far as any book on any 18th century subject goes. Cheap and well worth it if one is really interested. But no, it is not a one-stop-shop for everything you may want to know. No one book ever is. Nor should any one book be considered absolutely authoritative. "Flintlock Fowlers" shows many fowling guns, giving information on their makers (if known).

 

[Flintandsteel]

A fowler is a person hunting fowl. A fowling piece is usually a nicer smooth bore made for that purpose.
But there are smoothbore guns of all shapes and sizes and price ranges.
Your Average Joe, either a farmer, settler, probably could only afford ONE gun for self defense, putting food on the table, etc. So I have to assume that a large part of the common man probably had a smoothbore. Kill a bear or a bird. Load shot or ball.

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

Thank you friends!

So a “type-G” Carolina type trade gun or a fusil de chasse would be appropriate for a rural hunter or explorer of modest means? I grew up 1/2 hour from Fort Kaskaskia. Could those have been found there?

So is a “fusil de chase” basically just a civilian musket or something? Most I’ve seen on the google images search show a more plain type gun... man smoothies are confusing! I’m more of a rifle type guy and know much more about them, but desire strongly a smoothy! (And I’m not talking about the strawberry banana kind)

 

[Leadball loader]

Thank you friends!

So a “type-G” Carolina type trade gun or a fusil de chasse would be appropriate for a rural hunter or explorer of modest means? I grew up 1/2 hour from Fort Kaskaskia. Could those have been found there?

So is a “fusil de chase” basically just a civilian musket or something? Most I’ve seen on the google images search show a more plain type gun... man smoothies are confusing! I’m more of a rifle type guy and know much more about them, but desire strongly a smoothy! (And I’m not talking about the strawberry banana kind)

I grew up in New England and was influenced by the Davey Crocket craze. I had no idea that the rifle was never used in the north eastern areas until long after the Revolutionary War.
In the last five years I have found a lot of New England frontier history that was influenced by the use of the trusty smoothbore in the hands of native Americans , French Canadian and English descended New England settlers.
French hunting and military style guns definitely had a great influence on the type of arms in this area as they were captured, traded or purchased over a period of about Eighty years from the 1670’s through the end of the 1750’s.
I have fallen for the Fusil De Chasse and have pretty much lost interest in using the rifle.
The challenges and ease of loading a smoothbore will probably keep me happy and sometimes frustrated at times but, will be true to the roots of New England in the 18th century.
LBL

 

[Brokennock]

Thank you friends!

So a “type-G” Carolina type trade gun or a fusil de chasse would be appropriate for a rural hunter or explorer of modest means? I grew up 1/2 hour from Fort Kaskaskia. Could those have been found there?

So is a “fusil de chase” basically just a civilian musket or something? Most I’ve seen on the google images search show a more plain type gun... man smoothies are confusing! I’m more of a rifle type guy and know much more about them, but desire strongly a smoothy! (And I’m not talking about the strawberry banana kind)

The Fusil des Chase is a French gun. I don't there were a few in private hands south of the Canadian border, and there is style influence from it found on guns made in New England. Would the average person in/from your area been likely to have one? That depends on a lot of factors, but, unless there is a French Canadian connection for that area and persona, it seems unlikely. I think prejudice and stubborn thinking held away over a lot of what people of the period used and wore, or didn't use and wear.

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

The Fusil des Chase is a French gun. I don't there were a few in private hands south of the Canadian border, and there is style influence from it found on guns made in New England. Would the average person in/from your area been likely to have one? That depends on a lot of factors, but, unless there is a French Canadian connection for that area and persona, it seems unlikely. I think prejudice and stubborn thinking held away over a lot of what people of the period used and wore, or didn't use and wear.

Thanks!

So I’m thinking a type-G Carolina trade gun?

 

[Leadball loader]

The Fusil des Chase is a French gun. I don't there were a few in private hands south of the Canadian border, and there is style influence from it found on guns made in New England. Would the average person in/from your area been likely to have one? That depends on a lot of factors, but, unless there is a French Canadian connection for that area and persona, it seems unlikely. I think prejudice and stubborn thinking held away over a lot of what people of the period used and wore, or didn't use and wear.

Kaskaskia was part of French Colonial territory until the early 1760s when the English took over French Canada.
I believe there would have been many smoothbore French hunting guns in the area as most trapping and hunting was done by the french settlers.
LBL

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

Kaskaskia was part of French Colonial territory until the early 1760s when the English took over French Canada.
I believe there would have been many smoothbore French hunting guns in the area as most trapping and hunting was done by the french settlers.
LBL

Interesting! Wonder then, if an English or English American explorer might have been in the area and carried a fusil de chasse...

 

[Bob McBride]

Thanks!

So I’m thinking a type-G Carolina trade gun?

Smoke,

‘fusil de chasse’ means ‘gun of the hunt’ as ‘fusil de traite’ ‘gun of trade’, and ‘fusil de fin’ means ‘chiefs grade trade gun’. The question is if you want a French gun vs English vs Colonial vs English influenced Colonial. If you want a French gun it’s a fusil of some sort. I just picked up a Jack Brooks Type G. Nice 20 Bore and it fits nicely with the early Pa guns, Southern guns, and Appalachian guns in my collection. The type G is a pretty gun. I got a Bumford type painted gun. Fun stuff.

 

[rich pierce]

Forum research is not nearly informative as studying books. It’s just faster and free.

There are no absolute answers to your questions, Smokey. In the end you’ll buy what you want like we all do then make your story to fit it. If you looked at all my guns you’d find I build and keep what I like. With enough guns I can fit into just about any historical context.

I’m hoping to move to Vermont in a year so built myself an early New England fowling piece. Who knows I might die tomorrow. But I liked the style, had the parts, time, and desire and voila, I have a new gun I’m crazy about. Mission accomplished.

 

[Brokennock]

But I liked the style, had the parts, time, and desire and voila,

You left out that you have the skills, and, talent beyond many of us, to create such a gun.

 

[Brokennock]

Thanks!

So I’m thinking a type-G Carolina trade gun?

I think it is a pretty universal safe bet, especially for early to mid 18th century, again depending on location. It was widespread but still more common in some places than others. If you search here for topics involving them, you will find a reply to one of them that includes a map that shows where evidence of the Type-G has been found in such a way as to indicate where they were most common. If I can find my downloaded copy I will post it.


It helps that it is a nice looking and very practical design. With its straightish stock, rear sight mounted quite far back, and 28 to 20 gauge smoothbore barrel, there isn't much you can't do with it.

 

[Toklo Etee]

Hey guys.....saw you were talking about one of my favorite topics! The attached images are from an article by Lee Burke on Carolina guns. It's not a long article but one of his major points is that while there maybe variation....The English had a pattern that gunsmith's were using in their production of the guns. He breaks down the extant TR gun and compares it to the archeological recovered parts if the Yuchi town gun.
The English were cutting some corners using sheet brass for furniture & painted beech wood stocks but.....the workmanship on the guns is well executed. At 5 1/2# these slender guns were a joy to carry. Most of them were fitted with brass rear sights......the Carolina gun was the work horse of the 18th cen Deerskin trade.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Interesting! Wonder then, if an English or English American explorer might have been in the area and carried a fusil de chasse...

The area from Cahokia to Kaskaskia in the Illinois Territory was settled by French colonial settlers who made that area in Western Illinois the bread basket of New France. It was settled from about 1695 through 1765 by French settlers. After the British presence was established in October of 1765 by Captain Stirling and 42nd Highland Regiment, most of the French inhabitants crossed the Mississippi River to relocate in Spanish Illinois.

During the time of French inhabitation and afterward, the English presence was in the form of traders and hunters/trappers. The French inhabitants would have carried Fusils de Chasse. After the English trading posts were established, the supply of French firearms would have dried up. The English hunters and trappers would have carried British pattern trade guns as they worked for the English trading companies in the area for the deer hide trade. Records of the English Trading companies were published in Baker's "Sons of the Trackless Forrest" and have detailed records of the trade. Baker's book is out of print and selling for several hundreds of dollars a copy. Inter-lIbrary loans are possible and on line records of Morgan and Wharton can be found.

 

[TFoley]

As Britsmoothy notes - a 'fowler' is a person who uses a 'fowling piece'.

 

[oreclan]

Interesting. Does that book have a lot of history and discussion of how the guns were used? Or is it mainly a collector’s or gun builder’s reference? It’s a pricy book so just wondering before I order it.

It is the best illustrated reference book I have found on the subject.

 

[rich pierce]

If I were considering either a type G (Carolina gun) or a fusil de chasse I’d want to know the drop at comb and heel. Carolina guns can be too straight stocked for some. Unless the builder is making them with “improved architecture” they can be real cheek busters.

 

[jbwilliams3]

Hey guys.....saw you were talking about one of my favorite topics! The attached images are from an article by Lee Burke on Carolina guns. It's not a long article but one of his major points is that while there maybe variation....The English had a pattern that gunsmith's were using in their production of the guns. He breaks down the extant TR gun and compares it to the archeological recovered parts if the Yuchi town gun.
The English were cutting some corners using sheet brass for furniture & painted beech wood stocks but.....the workmanship on the guns is well executed. At 5 1/2# these slender guns were a joy to carry. Most of them were fitted with brass rear sights......the Carolina gun was the work horse of the 18th cen Deerskin trade.

I have that Burke article on my hard drive. It's a good one. One thing to note is the difference between what we commonly call Type G/Carolina gun and the later Northwest Trade Gun (NWTG). The former "type" is represented by the extant "Bumford Gun" of which you can see many pictures using an internet search. The original is in the Colonial Williamsburg collection. Though the term "Carolina Gun" continued to be used synonymous with "trade gun" they were not of the same pattern as post-revolutionary war trade guns which we now call NWTGs. In an over generalization, if you are an English-speaking person pre-1780 who happened to own a trade gun or if you are a member of an Indian tribe who trades with the English (and you don't own a Wilson-made trade rifle), then the gun you have most likely resembles the Bumford gun... perhaps not with the painted vines, maybe not painted blue or red, but definitely in that general form with brass hardware. I'm not as familiar with the NWTGs, and I'm not familiar with their use outside of the geographic location that their name entails.

 

[oreclan]

For your reading pleasure and to add to your knowledge banks as well ; )

This is a militia list from Hyde Co. North Carolina 1755. It lists the men and the firearms they had for use. I would call the typeG/Carolina gun discussed above as relating to the fuzee.

Captain Henry GIBBS, Jur.



Officers & NCO's:
William GIBBS, Leiutenant
Robert GIBBS, Ensign
John SPENCER, Serjent
Joseph JENNETT, Serjent
Morris JONES, Serjent
Corprells:
William SPENCER - Carbine
John LOCKHEART - Fowling piece
Thomas GIBBS - Fowling piece
Thomas JONES - Buckanneer
Samuell SELBY, Jur. - Muskitt


Privates:
Samuell SELBY, Snr. - [Blank]
Thos. HARRIS, Snr. - Buckanear
David JONES - Muskitt
Christopher JONES - Fuzee
Thos. HARRIS, Jur. - Muskitt
Edward SPENCER - Fuzee
John MORRIS - Muskeet
William MORRIS - Buckaneer
Stephen HARRIS - Fowling piece
Joseph WILLIAMS - Muskitt
Samuell SMITH - Muskitt
William TURNER - Muskeet
Charles CUTHRELL - Muskeet
Robeart HENRY - Fowling piece
Hugh HENRY - Carbine
Richard BRINN - Fowling piece
John SWINDELL - Muskett
William HARRIS - Fuzee
Matthew CAPPS - Fuzee
John CARRYONE - Muskeet
William SWINDELL - Muskeet
Abraham JONES - Fuzee
Benjeman JACKSON - Muskitt
Thomas SPENCER - Buckaneer
Nathan BAKER - Buckanneer
John BREACE - Fuzee
Thomas SMITH - Muskitt
Joseph CARRYONE - Carbine
Ziddekiah SWINDELL - [Blank]
Josiah SWINDELL - Carbine
Caleb SWINDELL - Fuzee
Joseph WALLS - Fowling piece
William SELBY - Fuzee
Andrew HOPKINS - Muskeet
Hopkins WILLIAMS - Muskeet
[ t ] STUCKBURY - Carbine
John LEATH, Snr. - [Blank]
Step[ t ]en EMMERY - Buckanneer
Nicless COFFEE - Muskett
James HALL - Fowling piece
John HALL - Fuzee
Joshua HALL - [Blank]
John JENNETT - Buckanneer
Wa[ * ] COX - Fuzee
Solomon JONES - Carbine
Buredge SELBY - Fowling peice
John CARROW - Buckanneer
George WILLSON - Fowling piece
Nathan SPENCER - Fowling piece
John SMITH, Jur. - Muskitt
Luke LINTON - Muskitt
John LINTON - Muskitt
David DUNEIN [?] - [Blank]
Henry BREICE - Muskitt
Thomas ADKINS - Muskitt
John SELBY - [Blank]
James DAVISSON - Fowling peice
Buries [?] WATSON - Fowling peice

I am surprised to see that many Buckaneers listed. They typically are of French origin for naval use, and have rather long barrels.

 

[Stophel]

My guess would be that the buccaneers were distributed out to the provincials after being captured from French vessels and marine installations.