Why do I get "Flyers" ??

[Bill J.]

This past weekend was our Spring Shoot. I have a large 50 cal. bench gun. Home made, not a factory gun. Its about 60 years old. Its in great shape. I had the crown redone and the barrel checked and rifling is fine. As the weekend went on, I could not keep five shots on the paper. I do not clean the gun after every shot, and its not any pattern to what shot goes out. There is always one or two that ruin a good target, Any ideas or coments would help.
Thanks, bill

 

[Stumpkiller]

Could be you, could be the bullets, could be the lube, could be the gun. Fliers are generally not the rifle. Are the fliers consistantly to one side or above/below. I have a chart at home to diagnose 'consistant' fliers.

You: breaking concentration - or concentrating differently. Some folks have a tremendous focus on the target, and it actually tires them out so that it falls apart at some point. Or, if you relax normally and for one shot you are tensed up you might jerk the trigger. Inconsistant anything will pull a flier. Follow through - take a breath after the shot before you move at all.

Bullets: If you are using cast bullets weigh 20 of them. Are they the same weight? Voids in the casting, or fluxes of odd metals in the lead, will make the ball fly erratically.

Lube: Are you getting too much or not enough on the patches? A really sloppy patch will cause the shot to print differently if all the others were thinly lubed. It's like shooting a heavier ball (and can soak into the powder, behaving like a lighter loading) A thinly lubed patch can burn through, tear, or leave uneven fouling. Is the fouling building up to the point where it hampers the ball? Switch lubes - especially from liquid to grease or vice versa and see if it helps.

Too heavy/too light or inconsistant trigger pull. I've been told that a target rifle should always surprise you when it goes off. Well, maybe. But it shouldn't go off before you're prepared or 'zoned in.' A gritty or poorly degigned trigger that is inconsistant can cause a flier, too.

 

[Birddog6]

You don't state the distance, load, ball, powder, etc. But it when this has happend to me it usually is the 3rd, 4th & 5th shot that starts pulling out. We need more info.
Also I get my best groups from swabbing between shots (not cleaning) regardless of the distance. If you don't swab between shots the barrel conditions change every time you shoot, thus the POI will usually change. How much it changes depends on allot of factors. Lube type, type of powder, weight consistancy of the balls, etc.

Everyone I know that bench shoots does swab between shots, however, there are probably some that do now.

 

I've read on various ML forums that 50% of the flyer problems result from five grains too much in the ol' powder measure. The other 50% is what's listed above in poster replies. Another idea that wasn't mentioned is the need for a wonder wad or around 15 grains of Cream Of Wheat cereal. Cream Of Wheat or Cornmeal grains help alleviate inconsistent patch alignment, bullet seating pressure variations, lube displacement/thickness and a couple other things that I can't get my mind to think about right now ...lol.

I should mention this also! Your rifle may shoot like manure with cereal/veggy grains in it. I heard that some rifle bores prefer fruits over veggies...lol again!

 

[Stumpkiller]

I had heard that grains can keep things regular.

 

[cayugad]

Stumpkiller are you saying that a little fiber once in a while might help? :: I make my own wads and have used cornmeal. It is strange, some rifles really like the wads and some will throw the accuracy way off when you shoot with wads.

I find that if shooting Triple Se7en I need to use wads because the stuff is so hot it burns my patches up. Goex does not do that at all.

 

[Stumpkiller]

Try a little Metamucil in place of the cornmeal. I understand it helps keep the fouling softer. :winking:

 

We most certainly do need more information. Are you shooting patched balls, bullets, what lube, how much powder, if a bullet, what weight and so on........
For BEST accuracy swab between shots. Accuracy is ALL about uniformity.
Accuracy is also subjective.
I've seen guys shoot pie plate groups at 100 yards and pronounce the rifle as "very" accurate. I'd throw such a rifle in the nearest lake. Or give it to SSE as he can't shoot anyway. :haha:
What size groups are you getting at what distance and how far out are the "flyers"?
I have a .58 bullet shooter that has NEVER done better than 1.5" at 50 yards. Many people say that's good accuracy. Not for me. I expect better.

 

[Birddog6]

Maxi: You need to send that rifle to Dave K. for testing ?












:bull:

 

[leadball]

IF I dont swab between shots i can get a flyer. After about the 12th shot even with swabbibg i may get a flyer

 

[cayugad]

I get flyers also no matter how well I follow my loading procedures. In fact when I am seating the projectile, just by the manner it seated as compared to others I have loaded, I can almost tell you if it will be a flyer. I know that might sound strange but this is true. Especially on my home cast bullets. (I do not weigh them... I just shoot them.. :

The other thing that really makes a difference with me is shooting form. Sometimes I get such tunnel vision :redface: with my target sighting. That's usually when I get a good kick in the cheek by the rifle stock, or suddenly remember to pull the rifle tighter into the shoulder next time. How many times have you been almost ready to pull the trigger and then re-adjusted where your face was on the stock?

I think that's why when I shoot an excellent group with a simple patched round ball, I am more thrilled then I ever was shooting long distance with my 7 mm mag. These black powder guns really make shooting a pleasure.

 

Keith. I'd send it to you, but it's a capper and a bullet shooter and since you're a flintlock roundballer I doubt you'd know how to load the thing. :haha: :haha: :bull:
As usual I think I'm using way too much powder. 110 grains of Elephant under various bullets all over 450 grains is a bit much.
I think the twist is right for a .58 at 1 turn in 48".
Thoughts anyone?

 

[riarcher]

Personaly, I get most all my "fliers" with hickups ! :shocking: