Why trim?

[Dreamhawk]

I've never used a ml shotgun except my LeMat that I carried trappin. Now I have a 20x20 Howdah Hunter. I've always used plastic shot ups in the LeMat's 16 ga barrel with #2 buckshot and never had a problem with patten or plastic residue. Now, I'm reading all these posts that talk about trimming off the bottom of the cup, plastic buildup, all these different loads, and other issues that I e not run into. Can somebody enlighten me about all this stuff please?

 

[tenngun]

Never used them, but I wonder if the larger charge compared to the load in the LeMat would make a differnce
???

 

[Freedom]

I believe that most folks that share their opinions on the matter have zero actual field experience . They are simply "parroting" internet ideas and notions.

FWIW...my Howdah shows little/no improvement with it's patterns when comparing loose loading to plastic cups.

 

[david w]

I've never used a ml shotgun except my LeMat that I carried trappin. Now I have a 20x20 Howdah Hunter. I've always used plastic shot ups in the LeMat's 16 ga barrel with #2 buckshot and never had a problem with patten or plastic residue. Now, I'm reading all these posts that talk about trimming off the bottom of the cup, plastic buildup, all these different loads, and other issues that I e not run into. Can somebody enlighten me about all this stuff please?

.
When I had my 10 ga, side by side, I used plastic wads and had no problem in the Damascus barrels

 

[Tumbledown]

This is was in the wrong forum...

 

[William Sublette]

This is in the wrong forum...

OMG!

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I've never used a ml shotgun except my LeMat that I carried trappin. Now I have a 20x20 Howdah Hunter. I've always used plastic shot ups in the LeMat's 16 ga barrel with #2 buckshot and never had a problem with patten or plastic residue. Now, I'm reading all these posts that talk about trimming off the bottom of the cup, plastic buildup, all these different loads, and other issues that I e not run into. Can somebody enlighten me about all this stuff please?

I used AA brand wads and both black powder and pyrodex, and the plastic residue was fierce. So this may be a brand thing, not an "all plastic wads" thing.
I read reports at the turn of the 19th Century of the same thing. Cordite and Black Powder burn hot...,

Now when I write "fierce" even a bronze "tornado" brush and using a power drill helped, but still there was plastic stuck to the inside of my bores..., Luckily I had a quart of Hoppe's #9 that had been a gift from a chemist I know, and he had added Benzene to the Hoppe's #9. He said the original blend of the solvent had Benzene, and as such would dissolve the plastic in one pass. Sure enough it did. He also told me that they stopped using the Benzene because it was found to be a carcinogen, but they kept the product name... when perhaps it should be Hoppes #10 or #11 these days.

LD

 

[Brokennock]

What kind of "pattern" are we really expecting from pistol length barrels?
I mean really? The original Howdahs were meant for almost contact distance work on charging tigers,,,, not turkey hunting, or even pheasant hunting patterns.

 

[Rock Home Isle]

I've never used a ml shotgun except my LeMat that I carried trappin. Now I have a 20x20 Howdah Hunter. I've always used plastic shot ups in the LeMat's 16 ga barrel with #2 buckshot and never had a problem with patten or plastic residue. Now, I'm reading all these posts that talk about trimming off the bottom of the cup, plastic buildup, all these different loads, and other issues that I e not run into. Can somebody enlighten me about all this stuff please?

I used plastic shot cups a long time ago, I remember pulling that stringy plastic residue out of my smoothbores when I cleaned them. I didn’t like it and I experimented with using thick fibre wads soaked in various lubes to reduce this stringy mess from happening in my bore.

Overtime I found that I could just drop the plastic shot cups and simply adjust amounts of shot and powder and develop loads that worked fine without the need for plastic shot cups.

I now lookup general basic load data for a specific gauge. These are essentially starting points for when I work on load development for a specific smoothbore….I play with powder charges and shot charges, until I got a pattern that will work at a certain range, and then from there I know that I need to be within that range for that load in that gun to be effective and reliable.

I don’t recall ever trimming shotcups, though I didn’t really have a mentor back in those early days, so my blackpowder education was through books, magazine articles, and time spent in the field through application.

 

[LME]

What kind of "pattern" are we really expecting from pistol length barrels?
I mean really? The original Howdahs were meant for almost contact distance work on charging tigers,,,, not turkey hunting, or even pheasant hunting patterns.

My thoughts as well? I had a WW1 trench shotgun and being I rabbit hunted a lot and all my shotguns start getting heavy after a couple of hour chasing a pack of Beagles. I desided to use the trench gun. The dogs pushed a rabbit right in front of me and he ran straight away in front of me I fired a load of #7/12 shot at him. I saw fur blow back on him and he never even acted like he was shot? A pistol shotgun doesn't appear to be the best length for much of nothing except it might stop a man with a buck shot load if you can get real close?

 

[Dreamhawk]

I used plastic shot cups a long time ago, I remember pulling that stringy plastic residue out of my smoothbores when I cleaned them. I didn’t like it and I experimented with using thick fibre wads soaked in various lubes to reduce this stringy mess from happening in my bore.

Overtime I found that I could just drop the plastic shot cups and simply adjust amounts of shot and powder and develop loads that worked fine without the need for plastic shot cups.

I now lookup general basic load data for a specific gauge. These are essentially starting points for when I work on load development for a specific smoothbore….I play with powder charges and shot charges, until I got a pattern that will work at a certain range, and then from there I know that I need to be within that range for that load in that gun to be effective and reliable.

I don’t recall ever trimming shotcups, though I didn’t really have a mentor back in those early days, so my blackpowder education was through books, magazine articles, and time spent in the field through application.

Thanks. I haven't bothered with looking up stuff about the shot cups because basically the LeMat shotgun tube is for shorter range 'face-to-face shooting and pattern isn't so much of a concern. I did however find that I could stack 17 #2 buckshot in the 16 ga cup and it was hellacious out to a out 50 yards. Thick enough that what I was bustin a cap at was going to take some shot. Since #2 buck is .22 caliber, I figured good enough. The Howdah is basically the same thing. I'm not going to be hunting turkeys, ducks, or clay pigeons with it. I'm just kind of looking for a jumping off point. I appreciate the information. Thanks!

 

[Dreamhawk]

I used AA brand wads and both black powder and pyrodex, and the plastic residue was fierce. So this may be a brand thing, not an "all plastic wads" thing.
I read reports at the turn of the 19th Century of the same thing. Cordite and Black Powder burn hot...,

Now when I write "fierce" even a bronze "tornado" brush and using a power drill helped, but still there was plastic stuck to the inside of my bores..., Luckily I had a quart of Hoppe's #9 that had been a gift from a chemist I know, and he had added Benzene to the Hoppe's #9. He said the original blend of the solvent had Benzene, and as such would dissolve the plastic in one pass. Sure enough it did. He also told me that they stopped using the Benzene because it was found to be a carcinogen, but they kept the product name... when perhaps it should be Hoppes #10 or #11 these days.

LD

You bet! Thanks for the info!

 

[Dreamhawk]

.
When I had my 10 ga, side by side, I used plastic wads and had no problem in the Damascus barrels

Thanks!