Will Your ML Kit Become Classified as a Ghost Gun

[cannonball1]

Will kit muzzleloaders in the near future be classified as illegal under a "Ghost Gun" category.

 

[appalichian hunter]

soon,very soon, its a kit gun. Nothing is safe...

 

[Okie Hog]

Will kit muzzleloaders in the near future be classified as illegal under a "Ghost Gun" category.

No.

 

[Elkhorse]

No because they are not classified by the ATF as a firearm.

 

[appalichian hunter]

Not yet.

 

[appalichian hunter]

Lets look at this a different way, Say a 58 remington cap and ball pistol does not have to be registered O.K. now you ,me someone else puts a conversion cly. in that remington you have just built a regulated firearm. As it is now a fixed cartridge firearm liable to the rules and regulations covering those type of firearms under the BATF. So you say I would never use a conversion cly. and thats good but the basic revolver platform lends itself to a easy change so everyone is now suspect, only way to ensure this is to regulate the weapon under modern firearms laws. So [--------------------] Is appointed to the BATF under [-------------------------------------------] presidential edit and cooperation from the BATF now they are all assault weapons. See how it works one small chip at a time. [-------------------] dont care about the innocents being shot, sure they use those incidents and act all teary eyed, and make grand statements as to what they are going to do to stop this plague, they want the guns all of them because they are afraid of WE THE PEOPLE and figure if there are no guns in private hands we are at there will.

[Political comentary removed by moderator]

 

[appalichian hunter]

This is a political time, and the ramifications that it has on black powder firearms, and it defines the limits that are going to affect all weapons, it was posted as a opinion of the possibilities of what could come in our hobbie and endevors with muzzle loaders. Sorry for refrencening Bozo to the idiot that was a dis-credit to Bozo.

 

[hawkeye2]

Just putting a conversion cylinder into a Remington or Colt does not convert it to a firearm that is regulated. Installing a conversion and modifying the gun from its original configuration, say by cutting a loading port in the recoil shield, changes things drastically. That's the reason that if you send a C&B pistol to a smith to replicate a factory conversion it has to be returned to an FFL and the appropriate forms filled out.

 

[Ray-Vigo]

The ATF link to the proposal is here: https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/r...frame-or-receiver-and-identification/download

Looking at 27 CFR 478.11 (at p. 322) contains the following as part of the definition of "firearm":

"Firearm. Any weapon, including a starter gun, which will or is designed to or​

may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive; the frame or​

receiver of any such weapon; any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; or any destructive​

device; but the term shall not include an antique firearm." [emphasis added]​

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So no, the proposed rule does not convert your muzzleloader into a "ghost gun", the antique firearm class being excluded (those being the guns that do not fire fixed ammunition, or have a manufacture in or before 1898, etc.). (The question about conversion cylinders is a different case, where the conversion cylinder moves the revolver from an "antique" to a conventional "firearm".)

What concerns me is how the proposed rule hones in on the concept of anything that can be, "designed to or may readily be completed, assembled,
restored, or otherwise converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive." In other words, we are now hanging our hats entirely on that antique firearm classification. And the concern also is this is being done as an administrative rule, not as true legislation.

In other words, what is to keep the ATF from trying to come back and narrow or emasculate the "antique firearm" category? One would normally say that the NFA '34 and GCA '68 would set the definitions, but if the name of the game is to use an administrative agency to usurp a legislative power, then I would keep a close eye on the agency docket because separation of power no longer has any meaning.

The notion that the framers of the Constitution ever intended such an abomination as agencies usurping the legislature is absurd. James Madison would be astounded by the power these administrative agencies have accrued. Many fundamental rights are in jeopardy when the law is whatever an administrative agency's marching orders are. I keep these sorts of things in mind whenever I head to the polls.

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[Eutycus]

If there really is such things as ghost guns are they really that much of a problem in todays society?

 

[sheriff john]

If your antique or antique replica has a serial number, it's not a ghost gun. Even a modern-made gun made from an 80% lower is not a ghost gun once the BATF serial number is applied. Doubt very much any of the squirrels involved in this have given thought to conversion cylinders as they aren't often used by either crips, bloods, nor MS-13 types.

Some states/locations regulate m/l's, "normal" states do not. As far as our president puttin together a kit gun in 30 minutes? Ha Ha Nope.

 

[OldMaineWoodsman]

Don't be so sure. DOJ has been looking to change the definition of an "antique firearm" for some time now. They are well aware that a rifle originally manufactured in 1895 can fire the same ammunition as one manufactured in 1995.

They also have never liked that a percussion revolver can be sold with no paperwork, background check, and can be shipped to your door. They don't see them as antiques or black powder firearms. They see them as firearms, right or wrong. They also know about drop-in cylinders that can quickly convert a percussion revolver into a center-fire revolver. Again, right or wrong they have their eye on it.

And the industry doesn't help when they produce unmentionables that look more and more like a modern rifle.

"Ghost Gun" is just the scary new name to justify their actions.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

So as of right now, the proposed changes do not impact muzzleloading firearms.

LD