I have an opportunity to buy a like new Investarm Gemmer Hawken Rifle in .54. I’ve not owned this brand before so I’d appreciate your opinion. Thanks
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Yes/No? .54 Cal Investarm Gemmer Hawken Rifle - Plains Rifle - Flintlock
- Thread starter Balad1
- Start date
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Same as a Lyman Great Plains Good price? SNAG it. ALL my Investarms are shooters.
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While John Gemmer never put his stamp a half stock flint lock rifle, this Investarms rifle is essentially the same as the Lyman Great Plains rifle. If @Balad1 can get it at a reasonable price and is aware that it is a fantasy piece, then it should be a good shooting rifle. There are some threads on the forum about this rifle. Do the search.
What is your goal for it? You plan to hunt or target shoot or rendezvous or wall hanger? How much are they asking for it?
While the pic actually shows the barrel marked "Great Plains Rifle 54," that doesn't look like my Lyman Great Plains rifle (or the previous one I had that was stolen in 1994). As I recall, the lock mechanism on the GPR is a modern coil spring. The GPR wood was run-of-the-mill standard grade, but the wood in the picture of this Investarm (on their website) does not look good to my eye.
My Lyman GPRs were 1:66 or 1:60, round-ball shooters. Real Hawkens were 1:48, this Investarms 54 is 1:60, unless it is the "hunter model" which is 1:32. If one wanted to hunt with conicals, that would matter.
In terms of arrangement, browned steel furniture, two barrel keys, double-set trigger, no patch box, simple half-buckhorn sight, etc. this is a fine representation of a generic plains rifle.
I think @azmntman is correct, this is the same model once sold by Lyman, although I think this has less expensive wood. The Lymans were reliable shooters, reasonably accurate. I replaced the sights on mine.
Recently though, I bought a Pedersoli Rocky Mountain plains rifle. This is quite a bit more than the Lyman. As I recall, the Lymans were last going for $700 new (or was it $800?). I think the current US price for a Pedersoli Rocky Mountain is $1100-$1200.
The Pedersoli is much nicer, but I don't know if it is $400-$500 nicer (I guess we should give them some slack with inflation). The Pedersoli has much nicer wood (I choose the maple version, which has nice tiger stripes), a german silver front sight, and all the furniture (butt plate, escutcheons, keys, trigger guard, etc.) are color case hardened, not just the lock plate. The fit and finish on the Pedersoli is excellent. The Lyman was average/standard, but the Pedersoli is clearly better.
The pics on the Investarms are not very detailed, but the buttplate toe looks off, the wood around the trigger guard is proud, and there might be a something slightly off on the forend cap -- the shadow at the top looks wider than at the bottom. Those aspects will differ gun to gun. I'd ask for pics of the gun they propose to sell.
Good luck.
While the pic actually shows the barrel marked "Great Plains Rifle 54," that doesn't look like my Lyman Great Plains rifle (or the previous one I had that was stolen in 1994). As I recall, the lock mechanism on the GPR is a modern coil spring. The GPR wood was run-of-the-mill standard grade, but the wood in the picture of this Investarm (on their website) does not look good to my eye.
My Lyman GPRs were 1:66 or 1:60, round-ball shooters. Real Hawkens were 1:48, this Investarms 54 is 1:60, unless it is the "hunter model" which is 1:32. If one wanted to hunt with conicals, that would matter.
In terms of arrangement, browned steel furniture, two barrel keys, double-set trigger, no patch box, simple half-buckhorn sight, etc. this is a fine representation of a generic plains rifle.
I think @azmntman is correct, this is the same model once sold by Lyman, although I think this has less expensive wood. The Lymans were reliable shooters, reasonably accurate. I replaced the sights on mine.
Recently though, I bought a Pedersoli Rocky Mountain plains rifle. This is quite a bit more than the Lyman. As I recall, the Lymans were last going for $700 new (or was it $800?). I think the current US price for a Pedersoli Rocky Mountain is $1100-$1200.
The Pedersoli is much nicer, but I don't know if it is $400-$500 nicer (I guess we should give them some slack with inflation). The Pedersoli has much nicer wood (I choose the maple version, which has nice tiger stripes), a german silver front sight, and all the furniture (butt plate, escutcheons, keys, trigger guard, etc.) are color case hardened, not just the lock plate. The fit and finish on the Pedersoli is excellent. The Lyman was average/standard, but the Pedersoli is clearly better.
The pics on the Investarms are not very detailed, but the buttplate toe looks off, the wood around the trigger guard is proud, and there might be a something slightly off on the forend cap -- the shadow at the top looks wider than at the bottom. Those aspects will differ gun to gun. I'd ask for pics of the gun they propose to sell.
Good luck.
Thanks all for the information.
I would use the rifle for target shooting (paper/steel). I know I don’t need a .54 for that but I can buy the rifle for $400 and it’s like new. I see the retail price online is $729.
https://muzzle-loaders.com/collecti...ifle-plains-rifle-54-caliber-flintlock-ia3414
I would use the rifle for target shooting (paper/steel). I know I don’t need a .54 for that but I can buy the rifle for $400 and it’s like new. I see the retail price online is $729.
https://muzzle-loaders.com/collecti...ifle-plains-rifle-54-caliber-flintlock-ia3414
I'd get it. Worse case you sell here for money back +
And ya.... You do need a .54
I would have enjoyed my many years in Iraq and Afghanistan much more if I could have regularly shot a flintlock, or any muzzleloader.
In Camp Taji, we had this huge tank graveyard which included over 50 artillery pieces dating back to World War II, including some early model British 25 pounders, and tanks up to early British Chieftains (late 1960's, early 1970's). We could have shot round balls at the Chieftain armor all day long with no ill effect.
In Camp Taji, we had this huge tank graveyard which included over 50 artillery pieces dating back to World War II, including some early model British 25 pounders, and tanks up to early British Chieftains (late 1960's, early 1970's). We could have shot round balls at the Chieftain armor all day long with no ill effect.
If the bore is good, a very good deal if you like the style of the gun. Value, at least to me, would depend on bore condition.
morehops52
50 Cal.
By the time you read this thread I hope you would have bought it. I have one in 54 and nobodys getting it til
I'm not here anymore.
I'm not here anymore.
Thanks everyone for the advice.
I’ve messaged the seller (friend of the family) that I want the rifle and have cash in hand.
Now I need to buy some .54 RB and flintlock accessories. I’ve only shot percussion in the past.
I’ve messaged the seller (friend of the family) that I want the rifle and have cash in hand.
Now I need to buy some .54 RB and flintlock accessories. I’ve only shot percussion in the past.
I spent some time at Taji and other FOBs in 2007 but primarily was based out of Balad. Seems like a life time ago, actually I guess it was.
It won't be long before you get all the messages about flintlocks will only work using real black powder. It's true.
You need for starters 0.530" round ball, 0.015 or 0.018 thick pillow ticking, patch lubricant and 3Fg black powder. The 3Fg can be used for pan primer initially as well as the main charge.
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I was there from early 2007 through 2009. Prior to that I was at Victory, but traveled a lot. I only ever passed through Balad. Thinking back, it seems so surreal, and at the same time I can't grasp how much time has passed. I finally left AFG in 2019. I am so happy to no longer be in the ME.
You'll enjoy the flintlock. A good flintlock is a real treat and conversation starter.
You'll enjoy the flintlock. A good flintlock is a real treat and conversation starter.
I thought I read where Gemmer bought out the Hawken Shop and continued to make their half-stock rifles.
Thanks!
Walt
If I remember correctly, John Gemmer bought the Hawken Shop and the rights to use the Hawken Stamp in about 1862. He built Hawken stamped and Gemmer stamped rifles. Most of these would have been half stock rifles and shotguns. Some time in the 1870's Gemmer built breech loading rifles using Sharps, Spencer, Trapdoor Springfield and Remmington Rolling Block actions on Hawken architecture.
That's what I remember reading. He also expanded into more of a Sporting Goods store.
Thanks!
Walt
Jedidiah
Old, Grumpy & still kickin !
I haveone. It is the same thing as the Lyman GPR. It's a fine rifle
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