you say frizzen, I say...

[George]

The origin of the term frizzen seems to be lost in the mists of time. Reams have been written about its use by people in the hobby, and the usual conclusion is that the term was never used in the 18th century, nor until pretty late in the 19th. Some claim it’s a 20th-century term. Anyone in the hobby soon learns a that at some time in the past that part was called the steel, and also the hammer, but there seems to be no way to pin down if or when that was true. Or if frizzen is a historic term, at all.

I found an item in a 1779 newspaper which caught my eye.

The GAZETTE Of The State Of South-Carolina
August 25, 1779
CHARLES-TOWN

Thirty dollars Reward

Stolen on the 21st of August, in camp at Sheldon, a silver-mounted brass-barrel Pistol, the barrel rifled to the screw, marked C. DUPONT on the but, under the lock Wilison, on the upper part of the barrel LONDON, the lock hidden in the stock, except the cock, pan, frison and spring. If such should be offered for sale, the stopping and sending of it to Wade Hampton Esq; at Mr. Hutchinson tavern-keeper in Charles-Town, will be thankfully acknowledged by

Anthony Shart, Capt. In 5th North-Carolina Bat.

Spence

 

[David W.]

I never heard of that spelling. Maybe its a typo? However, spelling has changed over the years!

 

[hawkeye2]

Webster's dictionary didn't come long till 1828 and probably wasn't in the hands of the general populace till much later than that. Most spelling was phonetic and you can find a word spelled more than one way by the same writer on the same page.

Another variation is frizzel, sort of like chimley for chimney and cramp for clamp.

 

[Wes/Tex]

I believe several terms werre in use for what we now call a "frizzen". I've seen period sources calling them "hammer" or "steel". In the case of "hammer", the flint was held by the "cock". Don't recall the terms used for the "steel" reference.

 

[Celt5494]

You bring up a really good point. What many forget is formal schooling was not as common and it was only as correct as the information the educators of the time were able to recieve. Lot's of folks don't remember German was very nearly our national language and those that can speak it know it's generally spelled much like the words sound. Of course there is exceptions but (George post) "Frison" would make more sense to me than "Frizzen."

 

[M. De Land]

I think it was Mark Twain (Samuel Clemons)that said something like " Never did trust a man that could only spell a word one way"! :rotf: Mike D.

 

[RedFeather]

Phonetic writing was quite common. My mother's side of the family was Vance which started out as the German Wentz. I saw one dictionary saying frizzen might have come from frizzle meaning curl. A frizzen does, indeed, have a sort of curl to it.

Also, spelling in print depended on the type setters ability to spell and how much type he happened to have available. Back when paper was expensive people used all sorts of abbreviations to save space.

 

[Coot]

Merriam-Webster refers to "frizzen" as a later form of the term "frizzle" - no origin cited. If someone subscribes to the Oxford English Dictionary, it will tell when the words "frizzen" and "frizzle" are first found in print.

 

[George]

If someone subscribes to the Oxford English Dictionary, it will tell when the words "frizzen" and "frizzle" are first found in print.

I have the OED, and frizzen isn't in it.

Spence

 

[pargent]

Do you think then it is an American term ( or slang ) that originated at the end of the 18th century ?

 

[David W.]

Some of my Google searching is calling the frizzen/frison a hammer, or steel.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Well no matter what way..., Spence has shown that in at least one part of the country the word was being used in the 18th century, and the person using it expected it to be understood by the local readers.

LD

 

[Spikebuck]

As usual, very interesting info.

friz·zle
1 [friz-uhl] Show IPA verb, friz·zled, friz·zling, noun
verb (used with object), verb (used without object)
1.
to form into small, crisp curls; frizz.

Origin:
1555”“65; origin uncertain; compare Old English frÄ«s curled, Old Frisian frÄ“sle lock of hair


Makes sense since the action is forming small "curls" of metal???? :idunno:

It also makes sense to me that it may have been called a "steel" at one time since it's performing the same function as a flint and steel.

 

[matt denison]

I think it was Mark Twain (Samuel Clemons)that said something like " Never did trust a man that could only spell a word one way"! :rotf: Mike D.

I think it was Thomas Jefferson who said, "I have little respect for a man who can find but one way to spell a word".

:surrender:

Spence's post wasn't about how it was spelled, more that the word was used at that early date. Thanks Spence, good info.

 

[Jumpshot]

As usual, very interesting info.

friz·zle
1 [friz-uhl] Show IPA verb, friz·zled, friz·zling, noun
verb (used with object), verb (used without object)
1.
to form into small, crisp curls; frizz.

Origin:
1555”“65; origin uncertain; compare Old English frÄ«s curled, Old Frisian frÄ“sle lock of hair

What we today would call frizzy hair.

 

[Rifleman1776]

I think it was Mark Twain (Samuel Clemons)that said something like " Never did trust a man that could only spell a word one way"! :rotf: Mike D.

Thomas Jefferson first said "tis a sorry mind that can find but one way to spell a word".

 

[Coot]

I think it was Mark Twain (Samuel Clemons)that said something like " Never did trust a man that could only spell a word one way"! :rotf: Mike D.

Thomas Jefferson first said "tis a sorry mind that can find but one way to spell a word".

Not according to Monticello.org. They cannot find the saying anywhere before 1880 and the same phrase has been credited to WC Fields, Andrew Jackson, GK Chesterton and others in the years since. One of those sounds neat but we will likely never know things.

 

[roundball]

Interesting digging as usual Spence.
Another thought might be dates associated with the use of the phrase "Hammer Stall" which I came to understand (right or wrong) was a fairly historical term.

 

[BrownBear]

I've always wondered about "frisson" as a source for the word, since the action of the flint certainly gets the gun all excited.

 

[cynthialee]

If'n I had invented it we'd all be call'n it a Smacker and a Sparker. :grin: